Banning babies from flights?

[Rocky_53 1,581]

Hmm, this is such a contentious issue, often started by someone who has never had a child or who has no tolerance of others (not specific to the OP) I know and understand the argument for not allowing babies (not children) on a flight, but I would never support this simply because we each have our own story to tell. Keeping young children in check on an aircraft is one thing, but stopping a hungry, ill or disturbed 6 month old from crying, when they are in an alien environment is quite another. Yes, in a perfect world, I agree, babies under a certain age perhaps shouldn't be on a plane. However, we don't live in a perfect world and we simply have to share the world with others. This not only means tolerating others but also being respectful and thoughtful of others too.

 

I remember flying to my brother's in Florida, back in 1989, my daughter was four and my son was about a year old. He cried for three hours solid! My wife tried everything to console him, but to no avail. You can imagine how the passengers felt, but also we felt like crap! But you know, many of the passengers appeared more sympathetic with our obvious embarrassment and frustration rather than they were with their own discomfort. If life was perfect it would be great, but it ain't!

[Tushka 0]

(OMG! I cant use words that commonly used on tv in programs for age 6 and up???... Well, okay.... Strange)

There's a lot of censorship in avsim. Even when I use generally harmless words that even 6 year olds use they become banned making me look like I'm swearing... However I guess they are banned due to past troubles, who knows.

I remember flying to my brother's in Florida, back in 1989, my daughter was four and my son was about a year old. He cried for three hours solid! My wife tried everything to console him, but to no avail. You can imagine how the passengers felt, but also we felt like crap! But you know, many of the passengers appeared more sympathetic with our obvious embarrassment and frustration rather than they were with their own discomfort. If life was perfect it would be great, but it ain't!

I believe people by 1989 were far more tolerant and understanding not like most of todays youth. I personally understand that there is people who have no other choice but to take the baby with them hence I added an option of specific flights or areas where they are banned.

 

I am no way innocent myself, and according to my mother when I was a baby (less than a year old) I screamed so loudly that an Aeroflot Soviet Airlines flight had to be diverted to Tashkent... I am not so sure if her story is true or not and she told me as a kid, but with Aeroflot at that age and era you never know.

[Demious 23]

I totaly agree Howard, there are situations you just run out of options, even when taking every precaution you can. It does happen. But I automatically discharged such situations from the topic because I assume everyone should be able to recognize a problem like this (at least I could, even when I was a child myself), maybe my fault for thinking to far ahead, and can tolerate a rare occasion where things simply do not work out as planned. ##it happens, right?

In my mind, those situations arent up for discussion, that's just the way it is, if you ask me. That would be about the same thing as that we all are careful to drive safely and it still happens that we cant prevent an accident. Discussion is useless in such situations.

What I was talking about are the situation where you can plan ahead, like when you know up front your child is gonna cry all throughout the flight, because it always does, or situation where the parents do have control, but dont handle the situation properly. In other words, situations that are changeable by the choices you make as a parent, but arent dealt with.

[tonywob 4,770]

 

 

This not only means tolerating others but also being respectful and thoughtful of others too.

 

That's just it, there is a large lack of tolerance and respect for others. This is not just on airplanes, but everywhere. e.g. I can never understand how people can bang around and slam doors in hotels and play the TV on full volume, I don't do it out of respect for others, and I don't understand what makes others feel the need to do it. The attitude seems to be "I paid for it, I can do what I like". It seems to be getting worse, so much so, that I'd rather stay at home that go on holiday sometimes.

 

 

 

 

(OMG! I cant use words that commonly used on tv in programs for age 6 and up???... Well, okay.... Strange)

 

Nothing strange about it. This is a forum read by not only adults, but youngsters as well. 

[Demious 23]

 

Nothing strange about it. This is a forum read by not only adults, but youngsters as well. 

 

It was more like a teasing remark, dont take it too seriously.

 

But to clarify my point, most programs for age 6 and up are generally watched by youngsters and I always count that what my kids are commonly confronted with on tv, in programs deemed suitable for their age, would also be acceptable language to use all around.

[sascha 314]

No... But they were sick and there was clearly something in the air... I talked to the chinese man next to me and he noticed pretty much everyone around that baby got infected.

 

Infections really do take some time to incubate - even influenza which spreads very quickly takes about 2 days to show sysmptoms http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1064.aspx?CategoryID=200&SubCategoryID=2001. So how would the chinese gentleman know?

 

If we could SEE infection being spread by looking at people we wouldn't need to go to a doctor!

 

It is more likely that there was a nasty draft in that area and the baby was complaining (very sensibly) about it because it felt uncomfortable.

 

And everyone around the baby probably started to hack and sneeze, right?

 

 

However, we don't live in a perfect world and we simply have to share the world with others. This not only means tolerating others but also being respectful and thoughtful of others too.

 

You are absolutely right - and we are right in the debate again: Is our society becoming more selfish or is it just the same as ever, only people can share their opinions very easily to everybody willing (or unwiling) to listen these days?

[avgaskoolaid 292]

Whatever happened to age discrimination, as mentioned earlier?  

When I brought it up, I was talking from a legal standpoint, as in a baby-free flight is legally (and I think morally) unacceptable, From a practical/parenting standpoint, however, I agree with Manny. Sometimes babies are impossible to console, because that's just how they are. But children over 2 or 3 years of age are more able to be controlled by their parents (if they are adequate parents, that is). 

[sascha 314]

 

 

Whatever happened to age discrimination, as mentioned earlier?

 

Privileges for one group does not instantly mean discrimination for everyone else.

 

This is at an airlines discretion, similar to upgrading frequent travelleres to business class occasionally.

 

If certain airlines feel they ought to help parents with very young kids that does not mean you as an adult are discriminated. Get your own baby and be privileged too!

 

A healthy society should have a certain tolerance to kids - after all, they are quite natural!

 

Making them fit into society is a an ongoing project and involves a lot of hassle until they're grown up.

[Rocky_53 1,581]

Is our society becoming more selfish or is it just the same as ever?

I'm afraid IMO sascha, society is faaar more intolerant and especially more selfish than ever before. A typical example is what was suggested by Tony. Slamming hotel doors, playing music in public places without actually considering anyone else. An example from many... The other week my wife and I were fortunate enough to find ourselves on holiday in Italy. The hotel played host to a family of complete degenerates, who had obviously won first prize in the 'Trailer Trash of the Year' competition. 3pm in the morning, loud shouts down the corridor and slamming of doors then they turned on the radio for an hour. I played the tolerance card and vowed to 'have a word' the next day. In the morning I spoke to the manager, who was extremely apologetic, but luckily the group calling themselves human left later that day.

[Tushka 0]

Infections really do take some time to incubate - even influenza which spreads very quickly takes about 2 days to show sysmptoms http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1064.aspx?CategoryID=200&SubCategoryID=2001. So how would the chinese gentleman know?

 

If we could SEE infection being spread by looking at people we wouldn't need to go to a doctor!

 

It is more likely that there was a nasty draft in that area and the baby was complaining (very sensibly) about it because it felt uncomfortable.

 

And everyone around the baby probably started to hack and sneeze, right?

It was a long time ago when I was considerably younger, and also in no way a doctor so I will never know. However as you described, we did notice people coughing and sneezing about 2 hours into the flight and as the baby was doing it before us, people became sick of the baby and it was screaming constantly for the whole flight (10 hours). Nobody did anything about it and just minded their own business and the babies mother at some point became freaked out and threw the blanket at the baby probably to block out the screams.

 

One of my worst flights, but at least they tried to do something unlike many others...

[sascha 314]

However as you described, we did notice people coughing and sneezing about 2 hours into the flight and as the baby was doing it before us, people became sick of the baby and it was screaming constantly for the whole flight (10 hours).

 

You all caught a chill because there was a draft. Dry air on planes makes this much worse! The newest models like the 787 Dreamliner and A350 have more humid air.

 

The baby was in even more discomfort than the rest of you, babies being less tough and much more susceptible to chills than adults, kids or teens.

 

Instead of blaming the baby you should have asked for a blanket and drunk some orange juice.

 

Cheers,

Sascha

[Rocky_53 1,581]

I've found a pair of ear plugs and a Diazepam swilled down with a glass of JD works wonders!

[Wilson 2]

Howard, you've got it!

 

Parents with kids should put a load of disposable ear plugs in the diaper bag.  They could then dispense them to passengers when the kid starts wailing.

 

Problem solved.

 

You are brilliant!

[Tushka 0]

Ear plugs are ineffective and do not work, especially not if the baby is extremely loud and sits right in front of you which is the worst seat you can get.

 

Obviously because of my situation (not because I hate babies but because of my sister), I will book childfree flights in the future next time I'm going to south east Asia... Air Asia is low cost and has found out a lot of people are willing to pay extra for a child-free flight to rest in peace for their meeting next morning hence this is a good option for the ones that want to avoid the nuisance. There is a couple of other airlines using this practice too and is increasingly becoming popular among business travellers and people who just want to sleep.

 

If you want to take your child with you, fine! Just make sure it's well behaved! A baby less than 2 years old probably shouldn't fly because of possible health defects I have read.

 

I do realise people with children need to fly, but there is also people who really, really need their sleep and health before landing. I have mentioned in the start of my post that this has had severe repecursions in my job and they do not pay for businessclass as it's not a private company.

 

And about the baby incident to Hong Kong I do not think it was cold air alone as there was something else that made my head extremely dizzy and my workmate that came with me felt the same so we had to spend the whole day in the airport. It might have been the baby, or might be not. But I do remember that the air on that flight was indeed not very warm. The aircraft in question was a 747. It's possible that the disease might have been taken up on our earlier Il-62 flight or even in Petersburg.

[Rocky_53 1,581]

Howard, you've got it!

 

Parents with kids should put a load of disposable ear plugs in the diaper bag.  They could then dispense them to passengers when the kid starts wailing.

 

Problem solved.

 

You are brilliant!

:lol: