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cva1077

Lest We Forget

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This year marks the 100th anniversary of the ANZACs' landing on the shores of Gallipoli, Turkey. This is a tribute to the ANZACs who paid the ultimate sacrifce, and to all past and current servicemen and women of the Australian and New Zealand Defence Forces'

 

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

 

anzac.jpg

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This is a tribute to the ANZACs who passed away defending their country,

 

What? I thought they traveled all the way to Turkey to invade that country and it was the Turks who  died defending their country.

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What?...

 

You seem to be quite offended at me paying tribute to my countrys' defence force personel, nonetheless, I have changed the wording of my original post.

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You seem to be quite offended at me paying tribute to my countrys' defence force persone

 

 

Oh no..not at all. I am not even  Turkish. I just thought the wording seemed kind of weird, is all. Factually so not correct. Hence. After you changed it, it looks good.

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I understood the intent of the original wording. While I have always understood the strategy of the landing, I've still have some serious reservations with the actual tactics employed.

 

In any case, I salute with great respect the service people involved! :Applause:

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What? I thought they traveled all the way to Turkey to invade that country and it was the Turks who  died defending their country.

 

 

Hey Manny, In Canada they have Remembrance Day, In the USA they have Memorial Day, In Australia and New Zealand they have ANZAC day which is these two countries equivalent to honoring all wars and sacrifices and not just the Gallipoli Campaign. Your comment is just as inappropriate if it was made towards Remembrance Day or Memorial Day as well. This was a World War 1 engagement and every troop in that war was sent off to a foreign country to fight in a far off place, Doesn't matter if you were from Boise, Idaho, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan or Christchurch, New Zealand.

 

ANZAC Day is a day to honor those who died due to circumstances out of their control and it is not about the policy makers that put them there, it is the same for Remembrance Day and Memorial Day as well. For me I am Canadian and Newfoundland was heavily involved in the engagement as well. The former British Empire had a policy of using its colonies as pawns in war and saving the troops from England for other battles, this is because it was easier to have heavy casualties from countries like Australia or New Zealand or the Dominion of Newfoundland then to answer for those losses from English troops to the families in England. This was one of those situations and casualties were heavy, and the loss is still a legacy today 100 years later.

 

When your country marks its day of remembrance or memorial I will respect that too.

 

Cheers

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When your country marks its day of remembrance or memorial I will respect that too.

 

Cheers

 

ytzpilot

 

Thank you for expressing in words, for others, what we Aussies learn from Birth. Another example of sacrificing the Colonies is how Churchill would not release Australian Troops fighting in the Middle East (under British command) during World War II, to defend Australia against the Japanese military advancing towards our Home. It was only a defiant Australian Prime Minister, against Churchill's wishes who brought OUR troops back to fight for Australia and stop the Japanese in New Guinea, less than 300 miles from mainland Australia.

 

Slowly, and with inevitability Australia will one day, be a Republic.

Edited by JustanotherPilot
Please do not quote the entire post. Thanks!

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Thank you for expressing in words, for others, what we Aussies learn from Birth.

 

No problem. I am a big time history buff and have taken part in ANZAC day ceremonies every year since I have moved to New Zealand.  If people are not from or have not been to Australia or New Zealand they simply just won't get it. 

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For me I am Canadian and Newfoundland was heavily involved in the engagement as well. The former British Empire had a policy of using its colonies as pawns in war and saving the troops from England for other battles, this is because it was easier to have heavy casualties from countries like Australia or New Zealand or the Dominion of Newfoundland then to answer for those losses from English troops to the families in England. This was one of those situations and casualties were heavy, and the loss is still a legacy today 100 years later.

Oh really, big-time history buff ?

 

Well, lest we not also forget, alongside the ANZAC forces at Gallipoli, the 21,255 soldiers from the U.K and Ireland ( the largest casualty figure of any nation ) who also perished there - amidst the claims of Colonial troops being sacrificed, the toll on Churchill's own country always seems to be overlooked.

 

RIP all of them.

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In the interests of accuracy and understanding the estimated deaths in the Gallipoli Campaign were:

 

Ottoman Empire 56,643     United Kingdom 34,072 France 9,798 Australia 8,709 New Zealand 2,221 British India 1,358 Newfoundland 49 Total Allies 56,707     Austalia & New Zealand (ANZAC)  10,930

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I am an ex-pat Kiwi, and know full well the reverance surrounding ANZAC Day. I think that ANZAC Day does not as much represent which side someone was on, but rather the expendability of troops when the outcome is already known to be failure before it even begins.

 

Bruce.

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Ironic that on a forum board in a hobby where the majority of people can't be bothered to use the search function or look up anything through any other means, the contributors here seem to be able to either recite or research history with so much fervor.

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Oh really, big-time history buff ?

 

Look Paul, ANZAC is Australian and New Zealand equivalent to Remembrance Day, no need to get nasty over it. I also observe Remembrance Day because I was born in Canada but now I live in New Zealand so I take part in ANZAC as well. I will be respectful to you on Remembrance Day so I would expect the same from you. This isn't about counting how many casualties from each side etc so I won't partake in such discussions, the meaning of the day gets lost in such discussions.

 

Cheers

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Oh really, big-time history buff ?

 

Well, lest we not also forget, alongside the ANZAC forces at Gallipoli, the 21,255 soldiers from the U.K and Ireland ( the largest casualty figure of any nation ) who also perished there - amidst the claims of Colonial troops being sacrificed, the toll on Churchill's own country always seems to be overlooked.

 

RIP all of them.

Paul, you have taken this so wrong. This is ANZAC day. An event that  happens every year on April 25th. Gallipolli is where the identities in AU and NZ were forged.

Celebrating Anzac does not diminish the sacrifice of the British Empire or the Turks who also suffered. Per capita, NZ lost more soldiers in WW1 than any other country. In 1914, the population of NZ was only 1.2 Million, so think about it.

I feel that you need to read up on history, as I found your post to be very insulting to the meaning of Anzac.

And for your information, at Gallipolli, the ground on where lay thousands of NZ remains at Chunuck (sic) are sacred to the the Turks, and has been so since 30 years after the Armistice was signed

Remember this was our day to remember our forefathers, our brothers in Australia.

 

Read this http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/war/anzac-day/introduction

Ignorance is no excuse.  When it is Memorial Day, Armistice Day etc, I always pay my respects, and your post has made me quite angry, so will leave it at that.

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This isn't about counting how many casualties from each side etc so I won't partake in such discussions, the meaning of the day gets lost in such discussions.

 

Yet a few posts above you wrote:

 

 

 


The former British Empire had a policy of using its colonies as pawns in war and saving the troops from England for other battles, this is because it was easier to have heavy casualties from countries like Australia or New Zealand or the Dominion of Newfoundland then to answer for those losses from English troops to the families in England.

 

You were called out on this very ignorant statement and now try to backpedal. The decent thing to do would be to retract this statement and treat ANZAC day with the respect it deserves, instead of trying to make a political or revisionist statement out of it.

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Mathew, & Julian - as Nick has said above, I took exception to the ridiculous notion that Britain squandered the lives of Colonial troops in lieu of our own.

 

Go back - read what I quoted - read my response. The British casualty figures at Gallipoli utterly refute that notion, and that is what I pointed out - nothing less, nothing more, no nastiness, no disrespect. Read what I actually said, not what you've chosen to think I said.

 

And I know perfectly well what ANZAC day is. I lived in Australia as a child, where my father was seconded to the RAAF. I went to school and learned about it, and the Kokoda Trail, amongst other events in Australia's military history. Additionally my mother's uncle emigrated to Australia before WW1, and died in 1921 as a result of wounds received at Gallipoli. Private Robert Aitken, 19th Btn, Australian AIF, lying in Rookwood Necropolis, Sydney.

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I am (fairly obviously) not Turkish, but the monument to the ANZACS and British troops by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk is both fitting and incredible touching:

 

"Those heroes that shed their blood and lost their lives ...

You are now lying in the soil of a friendly country. Therefore rest in peace. There is no difference between the Johnnies and the Mehmets to us where they lie side by side here in this country of ours ... You, the mothers who sent their sons from faraway countries, wipe away your tears; your sons are now lying in our bosom and are in peace. After having lost their lives on this land they have become our sons as well."

 

Personally i hope for a time when these types of tributes are no longer required.

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Mathew, & Julian - as Nick has said above, I took exception to the ridiculous notion that Britain squandered the lives of Colonial troops in lieu of our own.

 

Wounds do run deep in times of war and today in New Zealand their is a consensus that fighting wars under another nations command was a mistake, they believe that very strongly today. You will find the same from Australia and Canada as well. 

 

Growing up in Canada we always talked about the Dieppe Raids where we said that Canadians were used as a trial run, this is just another example so yes these are things the former colonies do talk about. Today military operations have a different command structure then we had back then.

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fighting wars under another nations command was a mistake

 

I think that sentence can be much shorter and read:

 

"fighting wars a mistake"

 

I don't believe for one minute that the troops from the former colonies wanted to be involved in the war...but then neither did the majority of British citizens stuck in places like the Somme or Ypres.

 

The Dieppe Raids were a disaster dressed as a trial run, a politically motivated decision made by people who didn't suffer or lose anybody.  The problem was the Soviet Union (the somewhat forgotten element in WW2) wanted a second front and considering they lost over 20 million people, i think they certainly had the right to ask.

 

 

 


Today military operations have a different command structure then we had back then.

Not really, most military commands are joint if they involve multiple countries forces; in the first Gulf War wasn't it 'Stormin' Norman (American) in overall command?

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Command is shared as it is rotated around

I don't believe for one minute that the troops from the former colonies wanted to be involved in the war...but then neither did the majority of British citizens stuck in places like the Somme or Ypres.

 

That's just it, look at the map of the world. New Zealand is a world away from Europe, during WW1 it had a population of 1 million people and 100,000 of them enlisted which is 1 in 10. They went overseas to fight someone else's war and had no idea what they were in for. 

 

 

 

The Dieppe Raids were a disaster dressed as a trial run, a politically motivated decision made by people who didn't suffer or lose anybody.  The problem was the Soviet Union (the somewhat forgotten element in WW2) wanted a second front and considering they lost over 20 million people, i think they certainly had the right to ask.

 

They did learn from those raids but they knew it was going to be a hit and run raid. Why Canada was used for those raids is beyond me but that is a big part of our heritage as well

 

Not really, most military commands are joint if they involve multiple countries forces; in the first Gulf War wasn't it 'Stormin' Norman (American) in overall command?

Yes in that operation but command does get rotated between nations so everyone gets their turn. Also each nation has a command structure under the operations commander.

 

Stormin Norman did an outstanding job BTW

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Nothing like a good dose of sore political history to get the party jumping.  Maybe this might lighten the mode a bit

 

 

Three men: an American, a Japanese and an Irishman were sitting naked in the sauna.  Suddenly there was a beeping sound. The American pressed his forearm and the beep stopped. The others looked at him questioningly. "That was my pager," he said. "I have a microchip under the skin of my arm."

A few minutes later a phone rang. The Japanese fellow lifted his palm to his ear. When he finished he explained, "That was my mobile phone I have a microchip in my hand."

Paddy felt decidedly low-tech. So as not to be outdone, he decided he had to do something just as impressive. He stepped out of the sauna and went to toilet. He returns with a piece of toilet paper hanging from his arse.

The others raised their eyebrows. "Will you look at that" says Paddy, "I'm getting a fax."

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Wounds do run deep in times of war and today in New Zealand their is a consensus that fighting wars under another nations command was a mistake, they believe that very strongly today. You will find the same from Australia and Canada as well. 

 

Not only do you take ANZAC Day as a platform for making remarks to cast aspersion on my country, but you now apparently presume to speak for all of Canada, Australia and New Zealand as well.

 

 

There are many people in my country who will never forget how our kith and kin in Canada, Australia and New Zealand never failed to answer the call and were always prepared to stand and fight at our side - even in our darkest hour when nobody else would. I would kindly ask you to stop dishonouring their memory and keep your opinions to yourself.

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Not only do you take ANZAC Day as a platform for making remarks to cast aspersion on my country, but you now apparently presume to speak for all of Canada, Australia and New Zealand as well.

I was born in Canada, I have lived in Australia and I now live in New Zealand. I didn't speak on behalf of these nations only made a comment on what was taught in school, by both my grandparents that served, and what is currently being said as part of the legacy today by many. Even my own mother made the same comment this week when we talked on the phone, so that is part of my heritage.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being from a nation that following these wars and in time of peace took steps towards further sovereignty. We learned from wartime and following that have made many changes for our reasons.

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