Any benefits to the newest P3D V2.5.12945 ?

[G-YMML1 582]

I wouldn't call it OOM issues, but *95 uses more VAS than *94 as I mentioned below. My testing facility is EDDS, rnwy 25 at 00:27 UTC with FTX Global + Vector installed, clear sky, 100% AI, default F22.

 

With *94 I had ~2,108 MB of remaining VAS on initial load according to FSUIPS

With *95 - 1,950 Mb

[Jim Young 2,356]

If we look at the files and folders included with a hotfix, we may notice a folder named ShadersHLSL. We know this folder contains files that overwrite old ones when the hotfix is applied. These files are programs that define the way the temporary shader files are created, shaders paint objects in the sim. Missing shader files are recreated from the code of the shader definition files found in ShadersHLSL. If the shader definition files are changed then we must delete the Shaders folder (or files within it), so that the sim will recreate those missing shader files. It's a really important step to make when we update the sim with a hotfix.

Great explanation Steve!!

 

Best regards,

[Guest]

 

 

they advise to use FTX global and Palm Springs airports to use.

 

They do not advise what products people "should" use, they never have?  AVSIM list a slew of products on this web sites, they aren't advising use to anyone ... it's just advertising and because I buy a product referenced at AVSIM doesn't mean I can hold AVSIM accountable for that product.

 

There are many reasons why one could finish a flight in v2.4 and not in v2.5.  3rd party had to make some changes to deal with the changed locations of some key .cfg files used by many 3rd party products ... this alone could and did introduce a lot of issues with 3rd party products.  

 

I'm certainly NOT denying that add-ons are causing VAS issues in v2.5.  I can produce VAS issues in v2.4 and v2.5 with add-ons, but without a logical connection that says "this is why", I can only share my experience and really have NO basis for finger pointing at LM or 3rd party.  I have located some 3rd party BGLs that have caused these issues and reported and/or removed, but that's a very tedious process of test, remove BGL, test remove BGL, ... and on and on with 100's of BGLs until I find the issue.  

 

For example, a Base 2.5 12945 with just AS Antarctica installed does NOT produce an OOM.  But if I add in FTX Global, FS Pilot Mesh, Vector, OpenLC EU that same exact flight causes an OOM.  Can I just say it's LM's fault?  Can I just say it's Orbx fault?   Can I just say it's PILOT's mesh fault?  Not really ... I have no tools that can positively identify anything "at fault".  What I need is a tool that logs what's being loaded into memory and the source of the memory load (be it a BGL, MDL, DDS, or whatever else) ... obviously a tool that logs this kind of info is going to put an even higher performance strain on the P3D.  BUT, I'm hoping adding the ability to log can be turned ON and OFF and when OFF doesn't impose any performance penalty (yes I mean OFF).

 

But, if I don't use 3rd party products and don't have a VAS problem ... then obviously the issues need to be brought up to 3rd party and "hope" 3rd party will take a look into it ...which may or may not result in getting LM involved.  Some 3rd party providers are going to be reluctant to look into it and will say "it worked fine in v2.4" or "it works fine in FSX" ... not much we can do about that.  However, if users or devs, have tools that help them pin point a problem, then we'll stand a better chance of getting a resolution.  

 

With that said, I've found a few memory issues with a base v2.5 product.  There are also some other issues around not showing the correct season terrain on initial flight startup which might cause folks to change seasons to get the correct terrain loaded and this could produce a big VAS hit -- or any product that monitors the season and adjusts terrain tiles accordingly may find a mix and match of correct and incorrect season tiles.  Another issue was the Go To Airport causing excessive VAS usage which is being looked at also.

 

It's a two way street, LM are doing their best to see what they can find and resolve.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[GSalden 4,657]

At the home page from LM P3D it is written : Experience what is possible within P3Dv2 and Orbx"

Also several other showcases ....

To me as a customer that means that LM approves these products. No where a warning like " Pay attention for OOM issues that might occur when usibg these addons.."

 

When looking at free Vas and comparing v2.4 to v2.5 I have 200-300 mb more free VAS at startup than with v2.4.

However, when descending at the end of a flight or at approach suddenly free VAS drops at more than 100 mb per minute ( on my system ) and then an OOM will appear very quickly.

And many experience the same.

 

V2.4 started with less free VAS but the drops at the end of a flight were less drastic.

 

With v2.4 I was able to fly from Amsterdam to Brussels and back at 6000 ft abd 220 kias.

Then I landed.

This is with photoscenery.

 

With v2.5 Ican fly to Brussels , turn back direction Amsterdam and the moment I start decending free VAS is getting less very quickly and I cannot make an approach anymore.

Exactly this ; OOM at descending or approach is what others have posted at the LM forum.

 

And I am very glad that LM has taken this seriously and are working on it.

LM already has done more than MS has done for the Fs community.

 

It really would be nice to finish a flight again...

[captain420 3,099]

So it's always recommended to delete p3d's shader folder, everytime we update?

[Guest]

To me as a customer that means that LM approves these products.

 

Sorry but there is nothing to suggest LM "approves" anything ... you're trying to bind responsibility to LM for showing 3rd party products of their web page and that's not a strong position to debate from as it would suggest any web site that shows some other product will be responsible for that product.

 

I'm just trying to provide you with the best options to get resolution ... since the problems can't be duplicated with a no add-on P3D v2.5, then its smart to start with the 3rd party vendor as they are the ones claiming P3D v2.x compatibility.  They're the ones most likely in a technical position to be able to work with LM (if needed) and go over possible causes of excessive VAS usage.  Again, the issue may indeed be LM's issue, or it may not ... but 3rd party are probably best ones to tackle that issue.

 

But to be clear, I'm NOT suggesting this is or isn't an LM problem ... that's exactly why I've asked LM for tools to help end users (and devs) figure out what's the source of the problem.

 

Many OOMs are on approach to destination airport -- that's a very likely scenario as the destination 3rd party airport is loaded into VAS.

 

Just like you and many others I'm looking for precise concrete answers ... no guess work.  I don't really care if it's LM's issue, 3rd party issue, or a little both ... BUT, I do want to be in a position where I can identify the source.  That will go a LONG way for devs and end users as more and more products are available for P3D.

 

Cheers, Rob.

Here is a example of trying to figure out why I'm getting OOMs using FlyTampa's Copenhagen.

 

 

If I disable FT CopenHagen in the scenery library, no OOMs.  If I enable, I get OOMs.  

 

This is just a few minutes from departure with 940+ MB VAS free ... within 2 minutes I've consumed all that VAS and OOM.  If I go to LM and say "Fix it" showing them this video that's not really going to be that helpful -- so, I started by posting my issue over on FT's web site.  They haven't responded ... so I've started the task of problem resolution myself which usually involves disabling .BGLs until I no longer OOM.  After I find the .BGL causing my OOM, I'll report to FT and see what happens.  But this is a rather tedious process so any help from LM in diagnostics and identification would be extremely beneficial.

 

Cheers, Rob. 

[vc10man 732]

Rob, your last post speaks volumes about you. If anybody is ever going to get to the bottom of this, I am more than confident, it will you with your dogged determination to nail this, that is, despite advances in hardware and OSes, taking the fun out of our hobby.

[GSalden 4,657]

Rob, your approach by looking for OOM causing files is what I did with NL2000.

I found that the effect files took a lot of free VAS away.

 

What wonders me : I disabled all addon airports and left only the photo scenery from the Netherlands abd Belgium active.

I can fly from Belgium to the Netherlands without loosing all my free VAS.

But when I turn and follow the same route back free VAS slowly gets less .

And when I start descending for the default Schiphol I still get an OOM within a short time.

 

So with no addon airports active..

 

I still wonder what is so different with v2.5 that it seems to be less acceptive towards certain bgl files ( the way they are made ) than v2.4...

[WebMaximus 372]

This VAS issue is really strange. I guess I should consider myself lucky because I'm running the latest version of P3D and I'm able to fly into FT Copenhagen in the NGX with ASN running and with all Orbx global addons installed without facing an OOM end to the flight.

 

What Rob has been taking about trying to come up with a tool that in more detail could show exactly what happens when OOM issues occur would be a great thing!

[GSalden 4,657]

I totaly agree with you.

If they might come up with a tool dat mesures what is happening when VAS is getting low very quickly then perhaps we might find things that will help LM.

 

Just tried a flight taking off form the default Schiphol , direction south at 6600 ft / 230 kias.

After Rotterdam 280 till the coast. Then following the coast descending towards 5000 ft.

Just above The Hague turning 060 an descending to 2500 ft.

 

25 mls out of Schiphol : OOM... ( 3 monitor outside view without instruments )

 

Never had this with v2.4, but that one had other issues....

[WebMaximus 372]

I wonder if running multiple screens could be the culprit because I'm using a single screen @ 1920x1080. Can't see though how that would affect available VAS.

[Nyxx 6,993]

I run two screens its not that.

 

My instinct is what Rob is saying, its some bgl not playing nice. I did a good test with the PMDG 777 on Sunday

 and had no problems at all and I thought i would with the setting I was running.

http://forum.avsim.net/topic/468421-well-impressed-with-the-777-after-vas-test-ss-of-settings/

 

CopenHagen is the only airport ive had a OOM with and that was with the PMDG777, its OK with the NG but that was a few months ago. 

 

If your running photo real, try without it and with addon airports see what happens then.

[GSalden 4,657]

In V2.4 I could fly over my photoscenery + addon airports without getting an OOM.

Everything nicely tweaked and set.

The only issue was that Nightlighting from Night Environment did not look like it should. With v2.5 that has been fixed.

 

There is no reason to disable the photoscenery as it has worked before...

I have no intention to stop using it. 

 

What is the use of stripping P3D form the addons , just to be able to fly without OOM ?

[Nyxx 6,993]

There is no reason to disable the photoscenery as it has worked before...

I have no intention to stop using it. 

 

No you completely missed the point.

 

Its was a test/reason to see if the photo scenery you use has become a problem in 2.5. To try and see if the same flight for you works with the addon airports without the photo real.

 

 

If you look at the test I did and setting then perhaps you might draw a conclusion you might now with 2.5 have a problem with one of the addons your useing so I suggested a test as you can see I clearly I don't have am OOM problem. So I suggested a test for you to try and pin point your problem.

 

I never said stop using it did I?

[GSalden 4,657]

David,

 

That I tried last week.

Photoscenery off, addon airports on, Ifly 737. Also OOM at approach..