FSX-MS A2A Piper Comanche 250

[jcomm 6,020]

I always force them full right = LINEAR, the deadzone full left = MINIMUM ( unless I cant filter spikes in my controller software ).

 

Some authors require the sensitivity sliders to be slide back ( to the left ), but PMDG and A2A, and if I recall RealAir too, recommend LINEAR = full right

 

There is yet another internal feature, described very well in the FSUIPC Manual, that works as a filter, independent of these sliders, and can be "turned off" in FSX.CFG, but I do not recall exactly where now :-/

[Scott - A2A 164]

King, yes, if you have been keeping it in the center, then you have had a delay inserted between your yoke and control surfaces on all planes.  It's not a control curve like you are thinking, it's a delay.  You will become a better sim pilot once it's on the right, as this means your yoke is directly connected and not going through some odd delay system.  All airplanes will not just be more responsive, but their response will be direct and better.

 

Scott.

[KingGhidorah 209]

All these years of developing my hand-eye coordination for simulated airplanes wasted.... Ok. Good to know.

 

So if we use FSUIPC for pitch, yaw, and roll, (which I've now decided I'm going to do for all airplanes from here on out) would you recommend just a straight linear map, with no curve, or what?

[jcomm 6,020]

Do you really need to use FSUIPC for your controls ?  

[flapsdown 45]

There is yet another internal feature, described very well in the FSUIPC Manual, that works as a filter, independent of these sliders, and can be "turned off" in FSX.CFG, but I do not recall exactly where now :-/

 

I believe this may be what you are referring to:  stick_sensitivity_mode=0 in the "Controls" section

 

This always had very poor results for me, but YMMV...

[Guest]

First, check your CONTROLLER AXIS SENSITIVITIES in the OPTIONS, and make sure they are FULL RIGHT, and null zone is FULL LEFT.

 

Thanks for the feedback Scott, sensitivity settings were already at max ... more data = more resolution = better flying.  I also checked to see if I had any conflicts in Axis assignments ... all good there.  The Cherokee I doesn't seem to have this issue, the C182 I get it time to time ... it seems the approach speed window if very narrow. 

 

I'll keep at it and see how it responds to various weather conditions ... so far only the most calm of winds (<4Kts) seems to prevent the erratic pitching and flare oddities.

 

is that default sky or addon?

 

Sky textures are from AVSIM library ... search on "Gabriel Rodrigues".

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

So, Scott - A2A, by recommending Controller Axis Sensitivity full right, you are saying that in order to get the correct aircraft handling feel, as you, a real Comanche pilot, interprets it, you essentially need a massive S curve of the axis, correct?

 

You NEVER want a null zone unless you have really poor quality potentiometers ... these values should always be max left/right to allow the MOST data possible.  Defining a null zone just ignores data over a specific value and always returns a set value and when the null zone limit value is reached you suddenly get data from the Pot which can cause wild fluctuations in flight.

 

I believe FSUIPC (I have but don't use it for my controls) allows you to define "curves" ... these are really there to compensate for poor aircraft dynamics and really shouldn't be used IF the aircraft is done correctly.  Defining a curve will introduce some latency as input data has to be calculated to output data ... the latency should be very small but in the CPU demanding world of flight sims it's not entirely irrelevant.  

 

FSUIPC will take the input data from the controller and modify it based on whatever curve you define ... this can cause erratic behavior for an aircraft that is design to work correctly "out of the box".  I'm hoping that most 3rd party aircraft developers do NOT use/rely on FSUIPC in this manner when developing flight dynamics ... I'm pretty sure A2A do not, but maybe Scott can clarify.

 

With all that said, I still can't seem to land this Commanche without a repair bill :( .... but I'll keep trying.

 

Cheers, Rob.

[ryanbatc 13,047]

I've been using setup pictured here for basically - ever.  I had no idea we were supposed to change these sliders.  This is what I've always had for default.  Are you guys saying these are not the same across the board?

 

If not what settings should I change?

 

@Rob - for a stable approach consider your airspeed...well technically consider your speed across the ground.  You want your descent rate to be about half of your ground speed (then add a zero).  If you fly your approach at 100 kias, your descent rate should be about -500 fpm.  In your video I noticed you were low and descending at a very shallow rate... that could make for a tricky landing.  If you fly at 80 kias (or mph), descend at about -400 fpm and try to get two red and two white lights on the PAPI.  I find in the Cherokee I need at least 70 mph to make a flare 2 point landing... anything less and its always three points...  iow I run out of trim to get the nose up at low speeds.

 

[LAdamson 240]

A comment on Rob's landing video.

 

Since I don't yet have the Commache, I can't say how the exact flight modeling is.  Generally, with a constant speed prop, there is a braking action from the prop. when power is pulled back for the final approach on landing. Instead of just pulling power to idle, as with the Cherokee, we'll want to carry or add a bit of throttle as needed to keep the nose up. The airspeed should still be bleeding off, even with some throttle. If we don't add or carry some power, airspeed can bleed off too quickly, and we fall nose low through the flare. We run out of elevator. 

 

There are two methods here. Use power to keep the nose up, and have happy passengers. Or, make a steep descent, to maintain enough airspeed, to complete the flare, without falling through it. Steep descents,  just sometimes scare passengers, unless they know what to expect. My short wing RV, with a constant speed prop, seemed to have no ground effect. The airspeed would quickly drop, if not watched. Using power was normal, just as I did with the Piper Arrow, which was different than the floating Archer or Warrior. 

 

As to the video, I could only listen to power, but the nose did drop as airspeed quickly bled off.   Nose gear needs to still be off the ground, while the mains settle. 

 

edit:  PS, as stated "Red your dead". Don't drag 'em in. Have a bit more altitude.

[KingGhidorah 209]

Yep Ryan, exact same settings for me since the beginning of time. Those are the FSX defaults. Except for Real Air Duke 2, which recommended that those sliders be set to 1/3 according to the manual, and that always bugged me a bit that I'd have to go in and change them if I wanted to get the intended control feel. What Scott is saying is that you should move those Sensitivity sliders full right, and no Null zone. Only previously did that for the Dodosim 206 helicopter, and that was because it was a helicopter, and a very specific case for which I used a custom Standard.xml that I'd copy over each time. I had always thought that putting them full right imposed the maximum flattening S curve, but people are saying that this is the wrong interpretation. Hopefully what Jcomm is saying is correct, that the recommendation to put those sliders full right for the Comanche, and everything else, is functionally equivalent to using a non-curved, linear calibration, and no delay as Scott explains it.

 

Now we have to learn to fly airplanes if FSX all over again, since how we've been doing it for the last 10 years is wrong. Darn!!!!!

[flapsdown 45]

 I've been using setup pictured here for basically - ever. I had no idea we were supposed to change these sliders.

 

I just looked at RealAir's recommendations for the Duke Turbine and Legacy, they actually show the Sensitivities set with the sliders just right of the "y" in "Sensitivity", with Null Zones set to basically just under the "n" in  Null Zones, so it's a bit of a grab bag depending on developer it seems...

 

Added shot of RA settings recommendation:

 

I currently don't use this exactly, I am way more to the right on the Sensitivities and with almost no Null Zones - but I will now push the "S" to full right and "N" to full left and see if anything gets better...

[Gregg_Seipp 572]

I used to use null zones but one day I turned them off.  The ailerons on an airplane do get deflected by the air which deflects the yoke but the influence of that at small deflections is very small.  I felt that if I was only moving the yoke then it would have an affect on the control surface with little or no feel...kind of like a real yoke.  So I removed the null zone.  Can't say it was a giant difference as I, generally, kept the null zones small already but it was a difference and not a bad one either.  A small movement of the yoke did have an influence that I would expect.  I use a CH yoke, btw, which, even though there's not much if any resistance near where it's centered, the potentiometers do register the small movements in that zone.  Hope this all makes sense.

[CFIJose 5,485]

If you have the paid version FSUIPC:

 

 

Some of today's add-ons require more tweaking.

[neucoas 82]

Yep Ryan, exact same settings for me since the beginning of time. Those are the FSX defaults. Except for Real Air Duke 2, which recommended that those sliders be set to 1/3 according to the manual, and that always bugged me a bit that I'd have to go in and change them if I wanted to get the intended control feel. What Scott is saying is that you should move those Sensitivity sliders full right, and no Null zone. Only previously did that for the Dodosim 206 helicopter, and that was because it was a helicopter, and a very specific case for which I used a custom Standard.xml that I'd copy over each time. I had always thought that putting them full right imposed the maximum flattening S curve, but people are saying that this is the wrong interpretation. Hopefully what Jcomm is saying is correct, that the recommendation to put those sliders full right for the Comanche, and everything else, is functionally equivalent to using a non-curved, linear calibration.

 

Now we have to learn to fly airplanes if FSX all over again, since how we've been doing it for the last 10 years is wrong. Darn!!!!!

I was using the same (stock) configuration as Ryan since i was born. So what are you saying is put the sensitive sliders FULL RIGHT, and the NULL ZONE sliders FULL LEFT?

[Bert Pieke 7,592]

Just changed the settings to full/zero and guess what...

 

The Comanche now feels great!  :rolleyes:

 

This definitely is good for this airplane  (CH USB Yoke / Saitek Combat Pedals)

 

Also, the trim limit of 19.5  works on this airplane for good elevator trim responsiveness.

[Gregg_Seipp 572]

 

 

One of these days I'm almost sure I'm going to get banned from Avsim for overplaying my staunch opposition to developers reliance on aircraft specific user calibration curves to create the aircraft feel! It seems that it used to be developers created their aircraft feel with the assumption of the user just plugging in their controller, accepting the default calibration, and going from there. Now with planes like Real Air, and A2A, it seems like you need to retune the controls for every plane these days!

 

For me, I do that anyway through FSUIPC.  When I set an airplane up I look down at the yoke they are showing and I move my yoke and see how they both move.  If they don't pretty much match, I adjust the slope of the yoke in FSUIPC along each axis until it does.  This is is where I start and from where I make small adjustments.  I do this for each airplane independent of all others.  Each has its own settings.  Not a huge thing to do and changes to the controls after that are very rare.  (To be clear, I have controls turned off inside of FSX...I only use FSUIPC for controls.)