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Evan

P3D v3 new structure

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I read the release from P3D, and I just want to make sure I understand this. If I install P3D on my SSD, I can then install all addons on my HDD? Is this a good idea? 

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you can install the addons wherever you want as long as it's not in the root p3d folder. Doesn't have to be on a different drive.

 

And yes, it is a good idea - the restructuring I mean.

 

Vic

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you can install the addons wherever you want as long as it's not in the root p3d folder. 

 

I went ahead and installed PMDG 777 into default location that they set which is the root drive of P3D.  

 

I would think they would have set their installer up to follow this new system since they were on the beta team.

 

Should I copy and move all their files out to another location?

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I went ahead and installed PMDG 777 into default location that they set which is the root drive of P3D.  

 

I would think they would have set their installer up to follow this new system since they were on the beta team.

 

Should I copy and move all their files out to another location?

 

I think you need to ask PMDG. As you say their choices should have been impacted by following L-M guidelines. If they don't then either they either have good reason, or they bodged it.

 

I suspect we will be seeing a large number of bodge jobs over the coming weeks and months. who knows what the implications will be ? Mostly nullifying the easy installation of updates, but you can't tell the mindset of the L-M technicians at this point as they have been less than clear over the change.

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FSDREAMTEAM/FLIGHTBEAM also installs into P3D root folder . Did not noticed it  - just installed them

 

 

What about ASN etc etc.

 

should all add-ons be outside P3D folder ?

 

 

Michael Moe

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That's what L-M want. Nothing installed to the root folder.

 

Why the addon developers aren't following guidelines ? Ask them. Please report back their comments.

 

Mod Jim, I presume this topic does not fall into the `no discussion` rule which was specifically to barr discussion of `routes around` installer limitations ? As the limitation is an installer specifically for V3 that appears non-compliant we are able to continue this conversation, yes ? 

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I understand how to do this with scenery, you can assign the folders in the scenery library. But aircraft are recognized and assigned when/because they're in the simobject/airplanes folder, how would I assign them to the sim, when installed into another place?

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I would assume, that you could add en entry in C:\ProgramData\Lockheed Martin\Prepar3D v3\simobjects.cfg

 

But frankly right now (for compatibility testing and testing of the new sim, I think I'll just install it into the default locations - and the re-install if required in case of updates)

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I read the release from P3D, and I just want to make sure I understand this. If I install P3D on my SSD, I can then install all addons on my HDD? Is this a good idea? 

 

I would install the add ons that originally were installed into the v2 folder onto the SSD: there is a reason why you installed P3D on an SSD and that reason also applies to add ons like scenery etc. Would be a shame to install the core program on an SSD but all add ons that also need to be 'streamed' during flight on an HDD...!

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I would install the add ons that originally were installed into the v2 folder onto the SSD: there is a reason why you installed P3D on an SSD and that reason also applies to add ons like scenery etc. Would be a shame to install the core program on an SSD but all add ons that also need to be 'streamed' during flight on an HDD...!

 

I wouldn't, Unless you are absolutely sure that there will be no negative impacts beyond having to do a full reinstall when updates are issued. And I don't see such guarantees on any website at the moment.

 

Who knows what impact putting `inappropriate` files might have into the core structure ? Certainly not us, not at this point.

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Personally, I don't think installing addons (which do not modify core simulator files) into the normal P3D folder will cause an issue other than a possible re-installation when P3D is updated. Even this may not be necessary as updates will not touch any non-native P3D files.

 

It is not what LM prefer, but it is still a viable option.  Most if not all current addons that are P3Dv3 compatible still install exactly the same way as they have in previous versions.

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Then yes, they are `compatible` with V3.

 

But not `compliant`. 

 

I suggest P3D V3 users familiarise themselves with the technical difference between the two in a software environment. It can be very important.

 

It also puts new pressure on promotional and sales materiel to clearly indicate which is in force. 

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why didn't LM move the "default" aircraft into a new structure?  i could lose some of the ancient sported from FS9  ;-)   Notice "a new structure" not "THE new structure"  LM have not specified external structure for models and scenery although Saul has suggested.  All ways need new entries/paths in the .cfg though

 

Note it is pretty easy to get some aircraft (NOT talking about hacking 3rd party in!) say own developed or old freeware, into a new structure if there's no installer or the installer doesn't check registry just installs in to any browsed to folder.   I've always installed these where possible into "new folder" so I can check what effects/gauges/sounds are used.  All these type models can be set up externally with appropriate paths in .CFGs.  

Paid 3rd party developers often/usually check registry and/or .exe available, and/or puts .dlls and license keys in the fs root, it's  problematic for them - at least for .dlls which need to be in the fs root with the fs  executable.  license keys need not and some deleopers alraedy have them outside the fs directory

 

don't forget the "new" external structure could be used with earlier versions or FSX if models compatible - many of us already do for scenery to avoid duplication.  hadn't thought of that before, so thanks to LM.  it would just need the appropriate paths set in the .cfgs.   Thought?  If 3rd party did that (used external to root) could make multiple version installers easier - external structure, just the .cfg entries needed in the respective sims/versions.  Would it work?

 

Sorry lot added by edit at 11.30 BST

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I wouldn't, Unless you are absolutely sure that there will be no negative impacts beyond having to do a full reinstall when updates are issued. And I don't see such guarantees on any website at the moment.

 

Who knows what impact putting `inappropriate` files might have into the core structure ? Certainly not us, not at this point.

 

I think you misread my post and didn't get the point.  :wink: I didn't advice to install the add ons into the v3 folder but onto the SSD: after all the OP probably bought that SSD for faster access of files (textures) and to avoid having to defrag. It would be a shame to install scenery on a slower HDD! So my advice is to install add ons like scenery and planes, which all are loaded in real time in the sim onto the SSD but OUTSIDE the v3 folder, as LM wants it. 

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That's the real problem, right there Mike. L-M instruct not to install into the core structure, but could very easily have provided alternatives that retain commonality, while achieving their objectives to facilitate updating without a complete reinstall. It's a `fail` of epic proportions to leave it to the aftermarket as it potentially increase problems for users of addons ten- or twenty-fold. 

 

All they needed was a second primary folder alongside the Prepar3d main folder called Prepar3d v3 addons, with a duplicated folder structure to the core folders, and pre-written links added to the various .cfg files to accommodate them, and Robert would have been your mothers brother.


I think you misread my post and didn't get the point.  :wink: I didn't advice to install the add ons into the v3 folder but onto the SSD: after all the OP probably bought that SSD for faster access of files (textures) and to avoid having to defrag. It would be a shame to install scenery on a slower HDD! So my advice is to install add ons like scenery and planes, which all are loaded in real time in the sim onto the SSD but OUTSIDE the v3 folder, as LM wants it. 

 

No, I get it. Your advice could actually create the very multiple folder chaos I have written about already. Without a universal standard, just dropping files and folders in user-created locations is likely to cause a mish-mash of installation confusion.

 

Without a common standard, developers and users are going to create random names for folders that will allow duplication and obfuscation, prevent effective troubleshooting and render tools utilised for external management of such arrangements improbable.

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Without a common standard, developers and users are going to create random names for folders that will allow duplication and obfuscation, prevent effective troubleshooting and render tools utilised for external management of such arrangements improbable

 

 

I also find this very odd.  Seems messy

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Louis, that's a good point - should have set up a standard external folder structure with the appropriate .cfg links and paths.  As said, Saul suggested a possible on the LM forum, but as you say, I suspect the 3rds will each set up their own with bodged .cfg.  At least they could put license keys in model folder.

 

Although I'm beginning to wonder - what about these dratted textures anyway . . 

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All they needed was a second primary folder alongside the Prepar3d main folder called Prepar3d v3 addons, with a duplicated folder structure to the core folders, and pre-written links added to the various .cfg files to accommodate them, and Robert would have been your mothers brother.

Brilliant and so simple! The best ideas usually are. However, it does beg the question as to why LM missed this solution. Are they trying to discourage 3rd party development? Surely not. They must know only too well how much we have resented having to reinstall everything when each update comes along. Now we are told that the 'new folder structure' should ensure an easier life for everyone in the future. As things stand it looks like this ain't going to happen unless the developers can get together and agree a common procedure with folder naming conventions which can be used by all their installers. Perhaps these configuration files you speak of can be backed up and then modified with the necessary links by 3rd party installers to point to the external duplicated secondary folder tree. The backup original .CFG/s can then be restored prior to applying any future V3 update. This could be automated with a batch file.

 

I would guess LM would have to provide a small update to ensure any added links to their configuration files were compliant with the core code of the sim. I can't imagine that that would be a difficult task.

 

Mike

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That's the real problem, right there Mike. L-M instruct not to install into the core structure, but could very easily have provided alternatives that retain commonality, while achieving their objectives to facilitate updating without a complete reinstall. It's a `fail` of epic proportions to leave it to the aftermarket as it potentially increase problems for users of addons ten- or twenty-fold. 

 

All they needed was a second primary folder alongside the Prepar3d main folder called Prepar3d v3 addons, with a duplicated folder structure to the core folders, and pre-written links added to the various .cfg files to accommodate them, and Robert would have been your mothers brother.

 

No, I get it. Your advice could actually create the very multiple folder chaos I have written about already. Without a universal standard, just dropping files and folders in user-created locations is likely to cause a mish-mash of installation confusion.

 

Without a common standard, developers and users are going to create random names for folders that will allow duplication and obfuscation, prevent effective troubleshooting and render tools utilised for external management of such arrangements improbable.

 

I agree 100%! Its a cool thing, but without providing a common guidline, I think the chaos is inevitable. Imagine every addon will setup its own folder-structure. Aerosoft Addons folders, Milviz Addons etc all over the place...

 

However, does anybody with V2.5 still installed simply put a cfg-entry pointing at  this root? Does this work and one has all Addons for 2.5 at hand inV3?

 

Cheers, Marcel

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No, I get it. Your advice could actually create the very multiple folder chaos I have written about already. Without a universal standard, just dropping files and folders in user-created locations is likely to cause a mish-mash of installation confusion.

 

Without a common standard, developers and users are going to create random names for folders that will allow duplication and obfuscation, prevent effective troubleshooting and render tools utilised for external management of such arrangements improbable.

 

Ah, ok... well, I think you are panicking a bit too much then.  :wink: I never install software into default locations, always where I want them and I never ran into problem with this. In this new case I will probably simply create a folder called 'Perpar3D add ons' on the same SSD as v3 resides and everything will be installed into it. Simple as that. 

 

But er... if you did get what I meant, I don't understand why you kept talking about files in the core structure... and I also don't understand where you are planning to install everything into... Or is the ONLY point you are trying to make that LM made a bad decision with this new structure?

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This new structure for addons is an LM preference and not a necessity.

As Saul has already said, addons such as ORBX have to be installed in the main P3D folder.

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This new structure for addons is an LM preference and not a necessity.

As Saul has already said, addons such as ORBX have to be installed in the main P3D folder.

You are, of course, correct. However, where do we stand when each Version 3 update comes along? I know some of you seem quite happy to reinstall everything to ensure success, but I am not and never will be. Some addons (? ORBX) may not modify core files in which case one would assume that they would not be an issue whereas others that do will be.

 

It would be interesting to know Rob's views about this.

 

Mike

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You are, of course, correct. However, where do we stand when each Version 3 update comes along? I know some of you seem quite happy to reinstall everything to ensure success, but I am not and never will be. Some addons (? ORBX) may not modify core files in which case one would assume that they would not be an issue whereas others that do will be.

 

It would be interesting to know Rob's views about this.

 

Mike

 

Orbx DOES in fact modify/overwrite core files so I suppose that after an update of P3D from LM you will have to reinstall Orbx add ons in order to overwrite the new core files with either the old Orbx ones or updated new ones from Orbx. Anyway, Orbx clearly stated today they will absolutely NOT change their methods and everything will be installed into the v3 folder as usual. 

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you can install the addons wherever you want as long as it's not in the root p3d folder. Doesn't have to be on a different drive.And yes, it is a good idea - the restructuring I mean.Vic

I have a 500 gig Ssd with only prepar3D V3 on it, so after tonight when I install some of my add on's my F drive (Ssd) it's going to look like this

 

Prepar3D

Rex_Texture

Flight1_GTN

 

All these are on the same SSD just in different folders, This is the way LM wants us to do it, Yes ?

 

But does ASN not need to be in the core folder and so does Orbtx?

This new structure for addons is an LM preference and not a necessity.

As Saul has already said, addons such as ORBX have to be installed in the main P3D folder.

Ok maybe this awnsers my question, So install as many add on's outside the core folder but still on the same SSD in different folders

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You guys are really making a mountain out of a molehill. Sure, the "new structure" is a nice idea by LM to get the FSX mess sorted. And I would love it, if all add-ons would actually use that new structure. But get real. There are so many developers out there who will at most adjust their installers so that they find Prepar3d v3. They will never adjust them such that they actually use the new structure. Orbx has already stated that they don't care and will install things as always within the P3D root folder. If you guys want to dump 90% of your add-ons and just use the ones that obey to the new structure then I wish you all the best. And I'm pretty sure that updates from LM will work as always with patches that simply override files in the P3D folder. Regardless of whether some other add-ons his installed files there or not...

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