I corrected that Irish reply for you  :smile:   

 

I stand sit corrected by one who knows - you are of course correct - and me with a mother from Cobh.    :blush:   beats arguing about rights/wrongs of folder structures though!

Not if the point release/update is to the 'client' portion of the P3D installation.

 

The 'scenery' portion will not be touched and remain intact.

 

This is why LM split the installation into three sections - they can install/uninstall/update each section independently.

 

Which is all well and good, but who says the only module that will be updated is Client ? It seems totally obvious that with three separate elements, any or all could be updated. Now you've got addons hooked into separate updateble elements. Either the update won't happen, because of those pesky `non-standard` files or the user will have to go back to a bare bones installation anyway.

The solution is to simply do what L-M recommends. I don't see why this should be so hard for any developer who wants to work with the program? A major change now, certainly but its a new sim after all. So make the changes, accommodate the update routines, and charge for it. If it's commercially sensitive to do so, blame L-M. 

 

Simple commerce, to follow the rules.

Simply barking to fight city hall when you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

For the user, the `solution` is really simple.

Do nothing.

 

Wait for the Ego and the Id to fight it out, then go with the L-M solution. No matter who Venema believes himself to be, he won't beat Lockheed Martin. They've got much bigger guns. And lawyers. 

What the heck do lawyers have to do with this...? You are taking this way too far. Relax. LM won't need lawyers because there is nothing to sue anyone for. And there is nothing to beat. I am starting to wonder why this structure thing is getting you so frantic!

This is getting insane.

 

Why do I even try?

There out there........Evil developers and there Evil installers 

 

 

Wait for the Ego and the Id to fight it out, then go with the L-M solution. No matter who Venema believes himself to be, he won't beat Lockheed Martin. They've got much bigger guns. And lawyers. 

 

 

LM (Prepar3D) are not going to do anything (from LM P3D).    Still a "recommendation" anyway.  Does anyone really think JV hasn't discussed with the Prepar3D team?  There is certainly nothing "illegal" in JV's approach, so what's the stuff about lawyers?  It's not even breaking EULAs!   For LM corporate it's very small potatoes. The only thing LM might do is get totally p'd off with our amateur rants and pull the plug on our use.  JV and other developers will do what they want - and undoubtedly still get the real professional users.

 

Carry on like this and we'll be back to FSX, XP10 or whatever DTG comes up with.

 

Just stop all this and let them work it out - or not.  Que sera, sera!

 

 

edit:  haha Elaine - and Evil Simmers!  The truth certainly isn't on here . . .

Worst case scenario - we do what we've always done - no problem.

Well it would appear the avsim notification did not work as expected, as I didn't see this had blow up...... Anyways, thanks for everyone's input. Perhaps I wasn't clear in the OP. I see now it looks like installing P3d on my SSD and all my addons on my HDD is a bad idea. I see everyone's point here, but it sounds like LM and various developers are going to be at odds here. I guess I have no choice with ORBX, but I will take a look about redirecting other addons. If for some reason they don't work as intended I will uninstall and reinstall using their recommended method. Just finished doing a clean install of windows 7, so here goes nothing. 

 

P3Dv3.x:

1. New Client installer released
2. Uninstall P3Dv3 Client from Windows
3. Wipe out Shaders/Config files as directed by LM
4. Install new P3Dv3 Client
5. Fix config files if necessary

Notice the difference?!? No reinstall of all your addons using P3Dv3!

 

You should only need to reinstall any addons that touched default if a new Scenery or Content Installer is released along with the Client.

 

Now can we please all agree that this is a GOOD thing for us and move along?

 

Thank you claring that up. So, If I understood this correctly - We can use this method the next time LM releases a new version, but for now (with everyone having 2.5), we need to wipe out everything and start from scratch? Also, point every addon to a different folder OUTSIDE the P3D folder, with a few exceptions?

 

Still not sure if I completely understand 

Thank you claring that up. So, If I understood this correctly - We can use this method the next time LM releases a new version, but for now (with everyone having 2.5), we need to wipe out everything and start from scratch? Also, point every addon to a different folder OUTSIDE the P3D folder, with a few exceptions?

 

Still not sure if I completely understand 

 

He was only giving an example of what could happen if only the client would receive an update. For now, if you have 2.5 and want v3, you don't have to wipe out anything: you simply install v3 (you can keep 2.5 installed, it's a completely seperate product), obviously from scratch, and then you wait for v3 compatible installers. If they point to your v3 folder (and give no option to install elswehere) simply install it there. If you get an installer that does give you an option, decide for yourself what you want to do. I personally would install outside of the P3D folder if possible. The choice of drive (the P3D drive or another) is up to you but if you have P3D on a fast drive, like an SSD, I would install 'speed sensitive' addons on that same drive but outside of the P3D folder.

He was only giving an example of what could happen if only the client would receive an update. For now, if you have 2.5 and want v3, you don't have to wipe out anything: you simply install v3 (you can keep 2.5 installed, it's a completely seperate product), obviously from scratch, and then you wait for v3 compatible installers. If they point to your v3 folder (and give no option to install elswehere) simply install it there. If you get an installer that does give you an option, decide for yourself what you want to do. I personally would install outside of the P3D folder if possible. The choice of drive (the P3D drive or another) is up to you but if you have P3D on a fast drive, like an SSD, I would install 'speed sensitive' addons on that same drive but outside of the P3D folder.

 

Ok thanks. Problem is, I don't have THAT much space on my SSD to have both 2.5 and v3 I think.

The requirement for addons that DO mess with core files is simple: Have a restore facility.

 

THAT is no doubt what is getting JV's goat as they've always made it as convoluted as possible to uninstall pretty much anything they've sold to the simmer. I'm a big fan of ORBX and FTX but this is ultimately self-defeating if they can't or won't adapt their installers to this new `recommended` route. 

 

After all, what is the POINT of their standalone FTX Central routine if it can't return the sim to the way it was before it installed (and replaced) core files? I mean, it s not like they're not halfway there already - the ORBX source folder is by default created within the core sim structure - just as a new folder. It surely cannot be beyond the wit of man - or even the godlike genius of Venema - to simply move that folder outside the core sim folders, and create either a backup during the installation process, or even just a text file that advises which back up of originals in case of core updates from L-M.

 

I've had my ORBX files symbolically linked to a separate hard drive for years - the actual files have never actually lived inside the sim. Never had a problem with FSX; not with P3Dv1; not with P3dV2. I dont anticipate any problem with V3, but it's for the developer to provide a restoration route - even if it's something the simmer does manually. Although it would be far, far better if their own installer did it. REX does, ASN does. So why not FTX ?

 

The problems start when you have a list of addons, each with its own restore utility, each of which needs to be run separately to get the sim back to OE standard, and be fit for updating. you could have literally dozens of these stupid restorers to run each time a module is refreshed by L-M. And the order in which they are replaced could have implications for addons that change files previously changed by other addons. You might be restoring the wrong files ! And who's to say L-M don't force the issue and have an update installer that disregards changed files and simply overlays their replacements. Now you might have a dozen non-functioning addons, each of which now needs to be be reinstalled anyway...

 

You see why this is something the addon developer needs to get a handle on ?

It's actually pretty simple to uninstall Orbx products, as there have been many guides written over the years on the Orbx Forums. Not to mention that Global, which does change a lot of core scenery files, has a built in backup routine and an uninstaller because of how deeply it affects the sim.

 

Your ignorant opinion and confounding attitude towards LM's new split installer routines and Orbx's installer routines is getting tiring.

 

Can't we just agree to disagree that you are the magnum opus of flight simulator installation law?

Where does LM give guidance on installing addon scenery and airplanes? There's no mention of it in their learning center and a search on their forums results in nothing. I am very curious about this, perhaps we all need to understand it better before installing addons.

Your ignorant opinion and confounding attitude towards LM's new split installer routines and Orbx's installer routines is getting tiring.

 

Can't we just agree to disagree that you are the magnum opus of flight simulator installation law?

 

+1

 

Extremely tiring to read all those posts of people who think they are the LM installation police. If you don't have a clue how the FSX and P3D file structure works then you should definitely wait for updated installers. I do understand how it works and I know where and why add-ons copy certain files. In this case it is absolutely no problem to install FSX or P3D v2 add-ons to test whether they work or not. I can revert the changes if necessary and in the worst case, I reinstall the entire sim. What's the problem? Just let people do what they want to do. It's their system and not yours.