I'll just stay away from these forums altogether and save anyone any grief.

 

That wasn't the point, Jim. I think we all know that you don't exist here to question what I'm doing. You've clearly demonstrated otherwise in the past. Recently, though, I've noticed that a lot of your posts have been along those lines, which is why I pointed you to that other post.

 

I would prefer not to lose someone who has been a valuable participant in several discussions here. I would prefer, however, to lose that one, minor, recent aspect.

Does TOPER let you update a navdata package? Why did they chose to call it TOPER that looks like an infringement of a copyright by naming it so similar to TOPCAT. - David Lee

Does TOPER let you update a navdata package? 

 

Have a read there, you will find your answer:

 

http://forum.simflight.com/topic/77283-toper-airac-cycles/?hl=airac

I'm always using V-speeds suggested by the FMC at the end of programming it. It has all the info needed: Airport, runway, weights, derates, assumed temps.

 

Just out of curiosity: why do you need a separate application for an info already available? Is the FMC incorrect? Or are there any other circumstances that need to be taken into consideration?

 

Thanks,

a quick read of the topcat guide will give you your answer ......... ! 

 

eg ... runway condition / obstacle clearance / apu's and / or pack's and / or deice on or off etc. !

 

it's all calculated outside the the FMC in the .........! 

Just out of curiosity: why do you need a separate application for an info already available? Is the FMC incorrect? Or are there any other circumstances that need to be taken into consideration?

 

The actual answer is pretty involved, but put simply:

The FMC makes some assumptions, and does not take all factors into account.

 

Additionally, the FMC also works forward. TOPCAT (and/or programs like it) essentially works backward. What I mean by this is that you cannot plan with the FMC. If you throw values in there, you're not going to get a full picture of whether those numbers will work or not. TOPCAT provides you with the ability to check the numbers to ensure the performance is okay on the runway, and in the climb. Moreover, TOPCAT offers the ability to take how much runway is available and de-rate/assumed temp your thrust in order to compromise engine life for runway used. In other words, if I have 10000' of runway, but I only need 5000' at full thrust, I can have TOPCAT work backward to find the de-rate/temp that would result in me using all 10000' in an accelerate-stop (engine out before V1) situation, which is essentially your "optimal" value for a de-rate/temp.

 

The question you've asked is essentially:

Why even have a fuel and route planner, when you have the FMC?

 

Sure, you don't need either, because if you throw a route in the FMC, along with a few fuel assumptions, you can get an idea of how much fuel you'll need (see the NGX Tutorials for the fuel planning trick). The issue, though, is that the FMC doesn't have the ability to show you weather along that route, or wind ahead of time (so to see optimal times, you'd have to try an altitude, pull the wind, check the time en route, set another altitude, pull the wind, check the time en route), whereas a route planner usually has some functionality for those considerations.

To the FMC point:

 

FMC only does balanced field speed calculations. It's essentially the QRH handbook table put into the computer. I don't know if it will even check if the runway is long enough.

TOPCAT is full blown performance calulator working off of FPPM, aka performance manual, does all manners of calculations and takes optimum values of it, we are talking accelerate-stop, accelerate-go versus different lengths, even liftoff point, it takes a look at climb, obstacles.... 

It's a big subject. Pretty much only thing missing there is go-around performance, which can be quite important in some airports.

 

 

Does TOPER let you update a navdata package? Why did they chose to call it TOPER that looks like an infringement of a copyright by naming it so similar to TOPCAT. - David Lee

 

Because TOPCAT means Take Off and Landing Performance Calculation Tool and TOPER goes from Take Off Performance.

 

It's not like they took Chevrolet and named themselves Chervotel

 

TOPCAT doesn't take navdata package either AFAIK

TOPCAT doesn't take navdata package either AFAIK

 

It does. There are some AIRAC available for Topcat.

It does. There are some AIRAC available for Topcat.

 

A new AIRAC is available every month from Navigraph. It is available for download just like the various aircraft and PFPX and what ever else is supported by Navigraph. I don't know what good it does since FSX never changes and some addon airports are updated but the updates are usually out of date by the time the update is released.

michael

 

whilst I'm sure most would not subscribe to navigraph for topcat airac updates alone .... but given a subscription provides you downloads for all your planes plus a few planners etc, updating topcat / pfpx also helps cover those many changes the freeware afcad community & orbx regions provide over time as well as matching the latest charts (eg KFLL / KORD recent changes)

michael

 

whilst I'm sure most would not subscribe to navigraph for topcat airac updates alone .... but given a subscription provides you downloads for all your planes plus a few planners etc, updating topcat / pfpx also helps cover those many changes the freeware afcad community & orbx regions provide over time as well as matching the latest charts (eg KFLL / KORD recent changes)

 

I subscribed to monthly, it's like 8 USD a month. I love it. Before I would update like once a year. Now, its cheaper than spotify. 

TOPCAT team has a history with this, making promises they couldn't keep, changing their mind on important things last minute, opening up the platform, only to close it down even more, deleting and banning anyone who dared disagree with them on their forums etc. etc.

 

Topcat is a great product and apparently so is PFPX, but I decline to support this kind of behaviour anymore.

 

 

Anyway, there was a good effort to do 777 performance calculator by the guys behind Q400 performance calculator - Aurasim - but there was not much heard from them lately, apart from being bought out by Airline2Sim (who might be aiming to get the perf calculator out with their planned 777 training course)

We'd like to do so but the 777 EFB is a world of fiendishly complex calculations compared to the Q400 and we have the same challenges as Topcat in that not all the data is available. The 777-200LR calculator is essentially complete, save for some missing data at certain flap settings.

 

It's not over until the fat lady sings, but I can't promise an EFB with our 777 course which incidentally will be along early next year, after the First Officer's course for the Q400.

We'd like to do so but the 777 EFB is a world of fiendishly complex calculations compared to the Q400 and we have the same challenges as Topcat in that not all the data is available. The 777-200LR calculator is essentially complete, save for some missing data at certain flap settings.

 

It's not over until the fat lady sings, but I can't promise an EFB with our 777 course which incidentally will be along early next year, after the First Officer's course for the Q400.

That would be great, hope you guy's can figure this out!

 

I will keep my fingers crossed.

 

Can we find progress updates about this matter on your forum?

 

 

Robert

Not so much really as there's not much to update you on. If that changes, I'll post up here. Sorry it's not more encouraging news. 

That would be great, hope you guy's can figure this out!

 

 

Robert

If I were you, I believe I would forget about ever having any dedicated 300ER takeoff calculations that included de-rates and just use the method 77west has described in post #6 of this thread.