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ahsmatt7

upgrading for the p3d pmdg experience

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Hello all,

 

Before I begin, I know this should probably go into a hardware type discussion but I don't think its the est idea to post two identical topics in two different places.

 

Also, this directly involved PMDG as I only fly the 73 and 77 these days.

 

Anways, I have a 2700K OCed to 4.6GHz and a GTX 670. Im in the market for an upgrade. My first thought is to upgrade to the GTX 970 fro P3d as I am aware that P3d uses more video card than FSX does.

 

However, My CPU is quite old. What is a better upgrade? Building a whole new rig with an updated CPU Oced to 4.6 and the new970? Or would the 970 still give me a solid bump in performance with P3d?

 

What Im aksing is this. Will my old CPU be a bottleneck with a 970 or will it still be ok?

 

I dont have the money to build a whole new rig and quite frankly, I dont see a new CPU doing heaps of good in the move to P3d like I assume the 970 would.

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What Im aksing is this. Will my old CPU be a bottleneck with a 970 or will it still be ok?

 

I'd put the CPU over the GPU any day. P3D, at its core, is still ESP, which has a common original code base with FSX, which is CPU heavy. A better GPU might help some, but I'm willing to bet you'd see much more of an improvement with a processor.

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I'd put the CPU over the GPU any day. P3D, at its core, is still ESP, which has a common original code base with FSX, which is CPU heavy. A better GPU might help some, but I'm willing to bet you'd see much more of an improvement with a processor.

really? Darn...

 

even if they run at the same speed? I have been out of the loop with building for the last 3 years or so. It seems a lot of generations have passed with the i7.

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really? Darn...

 

even if they run at the same speed? I have been out of the loop with building for the last 3 years or so. It seems a lot of generations have passed with the i7.

 

Have you looked into more/faster RAM (if that's possible for your setup)?

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Have you looked into more/faster RAM (if that's possible for your setup)?

I figured if I upgraded the CPU or RAM, it would be a MOBO upgrade as well and I would subsequently have to upgrade all three because of a new chipset. It seems as if I may have to bite the bullet and build a whole new rig.

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I figured if I upgraded the CPU or RAM, it would be a MOBO upgrade as well and I would subsequently have to upgrade all three because of a new chipset. It seems as if I may have to bite the bullet and build a whole new rig.

 

Yeah, I was thinking the same, which is why I added that "if that's possible" bit. I'm welcome to others chiming in - I only recently got into hardware knowledge - but I don't think a GPU is going to give you notable gains you're looking for per dollar spent.

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Based on my recent experience (Bought a turn-key 4790k system last year from a guy off craigslist for a phenomenal deal...only part lacking was the GPU, a 660 Ti), my desktop was much too old to upgrade components so just got a whole new system.

 

However in your case Matt, you're running at 4.6 and as we all know core speed is everything in FSX/P3D.  My system is running at the same speed and if you have your's dialed in (as I imagine you would after all these years), I'd go for the 970 hands down!

I just upgraded that 660 to a 970, and along with moving to a 4k 55 inch TV for my display, it has transformed my flightsim experience greater than any other upgrade in 20 years of simming.

Simming at 4k and that large of a screen literally has to be seen to be appreciated fully, and the 970 with 4gb handles it just fine on my rig.

 

Also I don't think anyone looks forward to upgrading so many core components because of all the config, tweaking, and testing you have to do to get it dialed in. (A royal pain in my opinion, I don't want to be a computer expert who also flies, I want to be a flyer who also knows just enough about computers to make my simming experience great, hehe)

 

You can also look at it this way:  You're going to need a GPU upgrade in the future anyway, so a 970 will only work better in a new system down the road, and it may be just what your current system needs to breath new performance in to it...and P3D is finding more ways to utilize the GPU with each release.

 

If you decide on a 970, bump your rez up to 4k (if your display can handle it), and see what you've been missing. :smile:  

 

Check out Rob A's 4k videos over in the P3D fourm...IN 4K....mind-blowing the detail!

 

Oh and finally, check you power supply if you're upgrading to a 970/980+..not going to recommend one in this post as I'm sure you can read up on which ones are good. :wink:  

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really? Darn...

 

even if they run at the same speed? I have been out of the loop with building for the last 3 years or so. It seems a lot of generations have passed with the i7.

i upgraded from a quad Q9650 to an i7-4790K and expected some improvement since it was a quad 3 GHz to quad 4 GHz, but the difference was astounding. You'd never get that much from a GPU.

 

If you can connect a plug to a connector, you should consider building your own. Sure, there's homework deciding on what you want but the old days of having to set jumpers and program DMA assignments is long gone: It is almost as easy as a tinker toy and the savings are significant. My upgrade I mentioned above only required a new mobo for the CPU and memory because the power supply, disc drives, case etc., were all retained thus the savings keep happening for at least one more build. Just my two cents.

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I would go for the GTX 970.

If the performance is better with it: fine.

 

If not, you can still use it on a new rig!

 

My experience here is: I am running a pretty new i7 6700k. And with the settings I run on a 4k monitor, I can see the processor at about 50-60% load (80% if PMDG speeds up time) but the GPU at 100% (as shown in MSI Afterburner). So I would go for the GPU.

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Right now, Its going to be tough coughing up the amount of money for a new chipset build. I want the 6700k but that plus a mobo and memory are going to run me around 600-700 bucks. Cant afford that right now. I can barely afford the GPU.

 

Within the next yr, I want to get a whole build going that will be future proof for about 5+ yrs. Well mainly I want to do this with in the next 6 months.

 

I thought since P3d makes better use of the GPU, that that would be the way to go. I also thought that the actual clock speed of the CPU mattered so as long as you got a CPU pretty high up, It was all good no matter what actual CPU you had.

 

I would be surprised to see an upgrade going from one CPU to another CPU when they are both clocked at 4.6GHz.

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HI Matt,

 

Sounds like we are in nearly identical boats... I have my 2700K@4.5Ghz with 8GB@1600 RAM and a GTX570 HD with 2.5MB of memory...

 

I've already decided I'm not going through the expense of a complete rebuild at this time - NewEgg has my 16GB@2133 RAM sitting on my porch as we speak - plan to install tonight... I've also decided I'm going to get the top end GTX970 as I'm not going to spend $600.00 on a video card....

 

I've only just moved to P3D and my Sandy seems capable of holding its own... I'm hoping these new additions extend the life of my box for a bit... Those 2700K's were great little chips...

 

Regards,

Scott

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HI Matt,

Sounds like we are in nearly identical boats... I have my 2700K@4.5Ghz with 8GB@1600 RAM and a GTX570 HD with 2.5MB of memory...

I've already decided I'm not going through the expense of a complete rebuild at this time - NewEgg has my 16GB@2133 RAM sitting on my porch as we speak - plan to install tonight... I've also decided I'm going to get the top end GTX970 as I'm not going to spend $600.00 on a video card....

I've only just moved to P3D and my Sandy seems capable of holding its own... I'm hoping these new additions extend the life of my box for a bit... Those 2700K's were great little chips...

Regards,

Scott

Scott,

 

Would you mind reporting back your findings once everything is situated? That would be a big help! If you're willing, post the findings in this thread so others can see the results. If not then no worries!

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I've only just moved to P3D and my Sandy seems capable of holding its own... I'm hoping these new additions extend the life of my box for a bit... Those 2700K's were great little chips...

 

 

 

Exactly.  You guys with overclocked 2700k's are just fine.  Just upgrade the video card.

 

I'm running a 2500k at 4.8ghz and there is absolutely no need for me to upgrade the CPU.  P3D3 runs beautifully for me paired with a GTX970 (ovreclocked to 980 levels).

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Hi Matt,

 

Will do...

 

Hi Greg,

 

Thanks for confirmation - always nice before spending hard earned dough...

;)

 

Regards,
Scott

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I have to put my ballot in for the video card. I have an ancient i7-860 over clocked to 4.0 ghz but I just upgraded from a 670 to a 970 and I'm very very happy with my performance (v3 ftx g/v pmdg rex fsgrw gsx my traffic 6 etcetc). Not sure if performance gains are necessarily linear but as far as cpu goes ESP has always been about pure clock speed and going from 4.5ghz to 5ghz and is only about a 10% gain where as going from a 670 to a 970 is about a 40% gain in raw performance (using passmark chart). So even though ESP still loves CPU at its core I think the boys at LM have done a decent job taking some of the load off so I think you would ultimately feel more benefit from the new GPU. I myself am waiting until my CPU melts or until Intel starts releasing stock 6ghz chips.

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I also have to say that Intel's Skylake CPU was/is an immense letdown.  I was expecting so much more performance upon release, but alas this is what we get when there is no current competition (AMD).

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I also have to say that Intel's Skylake CPU was/is an immense letdown.  I was expecting so much more performance upon release, but alas this is what we get when there is no current competition (AMD).

 

*???*

I am really satisfied with the 6700k. The overclocking potential is good, overall performance is very good... I don't know what more to wish for?

 

The one thing here is that most of the modern games are more depending on GPU, so for gamers the performance boost is not that much.

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What you have to do to improve your experience highly depends on how you have your system set up.

 

If you run heavy graphics (4K, high SGSS AA settings, shadows in P3D) then upgrading your GPU will give you a performance boost. However, if you run your system with modest settings (Full HD, limited AA and medium settings in P3D) and you are seeing poor performance when flying the PMDG birds, then most likely your CPU doesn't cut it and you will get the best peformance boost from a CPU upgrade. So you first of all have to identify where your bottleneck is. And this is completely system dependent! All this advice of "go for a new GPU, I have seen a major performance improvement" is useless if the guy who gives you the advice is running 4K res and therefore his old GPU was the bottleneck, but you see poor performance in metropolitan areas in the PMDG 777 because your CPU cannot handle it. In this case a new GPU will be a disappointment for you...

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You are all ready running at 4.6GHz, and you are not going to get any faster then that from a new CPU (and you might still end up struggling to even match it) without spending a LOT of money. The full MOBO upgrade you will need will give you access to newer/better/faster memory and I/O, but as long as you already have an SSD, they will make no measurable difference to FSX/P3D. A better graphics card will help P3D (but not FSX). 

 

If you really want to improve your FSX/P3D experience and pleasure, I would suggest you spend the money on lessons in your local flight school instead.

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You are all ready running at 4.6GHz, and you are not going to get any faster then that from a new CPU

 

Not true. A Skylake at 4.6 GHz is considerably faster than an old Sandy Bridge at the same clock speed.

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Not true. A Skylake at 4.6 GHz is considerably faster than an old Sandy Bridge at the same clock speed.

 

That's right.

It's not all about pure clock speed.

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You are all ready running at 4.6GHz, and you are not going to get any faster then that from a new CPU (and you might still end up struggling to even match it) without spending a LOT of money. The full MOBO upgrade you will need will give you access to newer/better/faster memory and I/O, but as long as you already have an SSD, they will make no measurable difference to FSX/P3D. A better graphics card will help P3D (but not FSX). 

 

If you really want to improve your FSX/P3D experience and pleasure, I would suggest you spend the money on lessons in your local flight school instead.

I do this stuff for a job. I don't need to spend money on flight lessons. I don't miss those days shelling out thousands of dollars. Hahahahahhaa

 

Flightsim now is more for nostalgia and remembering my child hood when I played fs98 and fs2000.

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