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Joe Verschueren

Upgraded to P3D V3 - do I have to re-purchase the NGX

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Good afternoon:

 

Recently upgrade to P3D V3. I had the PMDG 737 NGX for FSX. Do I have to purchase the PMDG 737 NGX for P3D? 

 

Tried to search through the 2000+  pages of threads, but I did not find anything.

 

Thanks,

Joe Verschueren

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Good afternoon:

 

Recently upgrade to P3D V3. I had the PMDG 737 NGX for FSX. Do I have to purchase the PMDG 737 NGX for P3D? 

 

Tried to search through the 2000+  pages of threads, but I did not find anything.

 

Thanks,

Joe Verschueren

 

Bit late now Joe but if you had gone straight to PMDG website you would have found the answer in the news and forums. It was mentioned pretty well as soon as it was released.

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Bit late now Joe but if you had gone straight to PMDG website you would have found the answer in the news and forums. It was mentioned pretty well as soon as it was released.

 Thanks Steve. I couldn't find it. Obviously I am not looking in the right area. I looked in the forums and searched for a few key terms. Can you point me to where you found the info? The going in answer is yes - you will have to buy the whole version. But I read a few places where it is backwards compatible. Wanted to get the real story. Maybe I am searching for the wrong terms.

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 Thanks Steve. I couldn't find it. Obviously I am not looking in the right area. I looked in the forums and searched for a few key terms. Can you point me to where you found the info? The going in answer is yes - you will have to buy the whole version. But I read a few places where it is backwards compatible. Wanted to get the real story. Maybe I am searching for the wrong terms.

 

Here's one of a couple:

http://www.avsim.com/topic/459512-08jan15-updated-p3d-development-information/

 

 

Customers who own a license to use a PMDG product on a platform other than P3D will not be able to convert the non-P3D license for use on P3D.  PMDG licensing is issued on a per-platform and per-product basis and this is not anticipated to change with the addition of new simulation platforms to the marketplace.

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 Thanks Steve. I couldn't find it. Obviously I am not looking in the right area. I looked in the forums and searched for a few key terms. Can you point me to where you found the info? The going in answer is yes - you will have to buy the whole version. But I read a few places where it is backwards compatible. Wanted to get the real story. Maybe I am searching for the wrong terms.

 

Joe,

 

I just googled "pmdg 737 ngx prepar3d separate purchase" and many sites listed explaining the requirement - not sure how you tried to get the info.

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no its free, as will be the 747 and the MD11.... of course its a new purchase. It states this in the forums and plenty of other places.

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no its free, as will be the 747 and the MD11.... of course its a new purchase. It states this in the forums and plenty of other places.

Why the sarcasm and why "of course"? There are plenty of developers very happy to allow an FSX purchase to be installed in P3D if the user upgrades their base sim. Many provide installers that do just that. 

 

Every developer makes their own business decision on this - there is no "of course"

 

Cheers

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Would be nice to have that original sale price again sometime how about a celebration sale just before the 747v2 release? -David Lee

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I started a thread a little while ago on whether it was worth the re-purchase.

 

For the record, I lasted 3 weeks without the 777,   

 

The 737 I'm holding off for a little while longer.

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Why the sarcasm and why "of course"? There are plenty of developers very happy to allow an FSX purchase to be installed in P3D if the user upgrades their base sim. Many provide installers that do just that. 

 

Every developer makes their own business decision on this - there is no "of course"

 

Cheers

 

While I don't agree with the sarcastic tone, I don't fully agree with you either. No other FSX developer has their products licensed by Boeing.

 

You clearly don't understand just how much this costs. P3D is a commercial platform, not entertainment. Commercial = higher costs. Boeings license fee for the P3D platform will be higher because it's not an entertainment license like for FSX/FSXSE.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I'm sure PMDG have swallowed the extra licensing cost to some degree, but at the same time they still have to make a profit. Giving away that extra license would be a massive hit to PMDGs profits, which results in a massive hit to future developments like the 747, DC6 and beyond.

 

So to summarise. Was the sarcasm not required? Yes. Is the separate license and added cost for P3D warranted? Yes. Is it the case of 'of course'? In my opinion, and anybody else that is even mildly business orientated, yes!!

 

This has been discussed to death over and over. We don't need another war of "why can xxx developer give me a free P3D license with my FSX license but PMDG can't, you suck PMDG". First you take a deep breath. Secondly ask yourself does my favourite developer xxx have an official manufacturers license? Then think before posting. 

 

Thanks for listening.

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PMDG was the only thing that kept me away from P3D till v3.2. I love PMDG, but 134.99USD for the same T7 as I have for FSX is a little to much. Im sure there are a lot of people that are still stuck with FSX just because of PMDG. 

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PMDG was the only thing that kept me away from P3D till v3.2. I love PMDG, but 134.99USD for the same T7 as I have for FSX is a little to much. Im sure there are a lot of people that are still stuck with FSX just because of PMDG. 

 

Count me in. My 2 PMDG planes are stuck within FSX as I refuse to pay another 200+ bucks for both aircraft. I mean, Majestic didn't charge me anything for using the Q400 in P3D and, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure they're in the same boat as PMDG with regards to licensing.

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I own all PMDG releases for FSX, and I bought the NGX for P3D, because I spend most of my simming time in P3D v3, especially when flying online. I haven't regret it, though it's a quite bitter pill to swallow.

I haven't bought the T7 for P3D yet, and I probably won't. I still got my FSX in good shape on a second SSD. And when I feel the need for flying the 777 (or any of the FSX only addons, and there are many), I fire up FSX and enjoy it.

I don't criticize what PMDG do, it's their own decision, and nobody forces me to buy their products. But my decision is quite clear. I don't want to pay twice (and even a lot more) for the same product. And the T7 just gives me another reason, to fly in good old (and very stable FSX DX9) from time to time...

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This has been discussed to death over and over. We don't need another war of "why can xxx developer give me a free P3D license with my FSX license but PMDG can't, you suck PMDG". First you take a deep breath. Secondly ask yourself does my favourite developer xxx have an official manufacturers license? Then think before posting. 

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Hello;

What does that actually mean "to have an official manufacturers licence"? Does that mean that Kyle and Rob can get 2gether one afternoon and assemble a 747/777/737 in Robs back yard? How different would it be if they didn't have this licence? How would that affect our PMDG experience? 

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I own all PMDG releases for FSX, and I bought the NGX for P3D, because I spend most of my simming time in P3D v3, especially when flying online. I haven't regret it, though it's a quite bitter pill to swallow.
I haven't bought the T7 for P3D yet, and I probably won't. I still got my FSX in good shape on a second SSD. And when I feel the need for flying the 777 (or any of the FSX only addons, and there are many), I fire up FSX and enjoy it.
I don't criticize what PMDG do, it's their own decision, and nobody forces me to buy their products. But my decision is quite clear. I don't want to pay twice (and even a lot more) for the same product. And the T7 just gives me another reason, to fly in good old (and very stable FSX DX9) from time to time...

 

That's a fair assessment.  I left my PMDG behind when I moved to P3D.  Ah, sigh.  Still having fun.

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While I don't agree with the sarcastic tone, I don't fully agree with you either. No other FSX developer has their products licensed by Boeing.

 

You clearly don't understand just how much this costs. P3D is a commercial platform, not entertainment. Commercial = higher costs. Boeings license fee for the P3D platform will be higher because it's not an entertainment license like for FSX/FSXSE.

 

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but I'm sure PMDG have swallowed the extra licensing cost to some degree, but at the same time they still have to make a profit. Giving away that extra license would be a massive hit to PMDGs profits, which results in a massive hit to future developments like the 747, DC6 and beyond.

 

So to summarise. Was the sarcasm not required? Yes. Is the separate license and added cost for P3D warranted? Yes. Is it the case of 'of course'? In my opinion, and anybody else that is even mildly business orientated, yes!!

 

This has been discussed to death over and over. We don't need another war of "why can xxx developer give me a free P3D license with my FSX license but PMDG can't, you suck PMDG". First you take a deep breath. Secondly ask yourself does my favourite developer xxx have an official manufacturers license? Then think before posting. 

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Actually, whilst I clearly don't know what PMDG are paying Boeing, I do know (and therefore "understand") how much Boeing like to charge for this type of licensing, as I have been down that road myself. As you yourself point out you "don't know the ins and outs of it" so why are you "sure PMDG have swallowed the extra licensing cost to some degree"? If you actually read Mr Randazzo's 8Feb15 comments on the pricing policy this is not really what he seems to say and he clearly says that "commercial" users will be paying significantly higher license fees in any case. PMDG's website says that their P3D products are "personal use only, not for professional or training use" and "compatible with any Lockheed Martin Prepar3D license level" i.e. including the academic licence. So this is not "of course" about P3D being a "commercial platform", which it is not exclusively. It is however, of course, about commercial decision making.

 

If you read my post you will note I didn't actually comment on whether I thought the additional cost was warranted, nor did I start "another war" or suggest that "PMDG suck". I just commented that it was unnecessary for anyone to make sarcastic put downs to someone who had asked a reasonable question, even if that information was already available elsewhere on line.  I'm not sure why I should have to "take a deep breath" and "think before I post" to suggest that?

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As you yourself point out you "don't know the ins and outs of it" so why are you "sure PMDG have swallowed the extra licensing cost to some degree"?

 

Because the price would be well over $200 if they passed on every penny of licensing to you and I. You would know that since you know how much Boeing like to charge for licensing.

 

 

"personal use only, not for professional or training use" and "compatible with any Lockheed Martin Prepar3D license level"

 

You're mixing a commercial customer (e.g. United Airlines) with a commercial sim (e.g. P3D). P3D is not an entertainment platform in any way. It is an academic/training or commercial platform. 

 

 

PMDG's website says that their P3D products are "personal use only, not for professional or training use"

 

Professional/Training use being a commercial customer. Again you're confusing commercial customer with commercial sim. This means you and I can purchase it for academic reasons, but United Airlines (not picking on them at all, they're just top of my head) cannot purchase it to train their pilots.

 

 

So this is not "of course" about P3D being a "commercial platform", which it is not exclusively.

 

Again, P3D is not an entertainment platform. It is an academic/training/commercial platform. This requires a completely different and highly complex license from Boeing in order to certify the product.

 

Do you honestly think P3D customers are getting screwed by PMDG? 

 

 

If you read my post you will note I didn't actually comment on whether I thought the additional cost was warranted, nor did I start "another war" or suggest that "PMDG suck". I just commented that it was unnecessary for anyone to make sarcastic put downs to someone who had asked a reasonable question, even if that information was already available elsewhere on line.  I'm not sure why I should have to "take a deep breath" and "think before I post" to suggest that?

 

Sorry that last part wasn't necessarily directed at you specifically. I was just pointing it out to everyone the situation.

 

What do you use P3D for? Entertainment? You can't. Academic? Then you need an academic license. Why should you get an entertainment license from PMDG but require an academic from LM? Same goes for the Pro licenses.

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I think you're missing my point and a long tedious (and off topic based on my first post) discussion about license flavours isn't really going to get us anywhere. I am able to read the EULA for P3D and what PMDG's website says about their license so I'm quite aware of what P3D is and is not and what I would be allowed to do with a PMDG license if I purchased one.

 

You are speculating that personal use of a PMDG product on P3D "requires a completely different and highly complex license from Boeing in order to certify the product". Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't but I'm not sure what is actually being "certified" in a personal use product. 

 

My point is that

a) PMDG haven't said the cost is to cover licensing or "certification", and

b) more importantly, why would the original poster, who is possibly not as committed to the brand as someone whose username is PMDG777, be expected to know all of this before asking a simple question? A simple question which then seems to allow his ridicule by the cognoscenti here.

 

And to answer your final questions:

 

I use P3D for "simulation" as permitted by the license agreement and I have never suggested in my posts that PMDG offer me an "entertainment" license for anything. I actually think PMDG should offer whatever licensing options they wish, at whatever price point they think hits the commercial sweet spot for them, and we can all decide whether to buy at that price or not. I have never said otherwise.

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As I've stated way too many times for people:

Scenery devs don't need to license their scenery.

Weather program devs don't need to license weather.

Other devs may not full understand the liability implications of this new environment.

...most simmers don't either, as is clearly shown here.

 

http://www.avsim.com/topic/461729-08feb15-p3d-pricing-policy-some-facts-on-this-issue/

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