Watching a replay of a Twitch stream, the streamer claimed to be part of the British Airways virtual and said SOP for BA in real life is to not use nav lights? At least on the 777? Is this true I've never heard of it before. -David Lee

Watching a replay of a Twitch stream, the streamer claimed to be part of the British Airways virtual and said SOP for BA in real life is to not use nav lights? At least on the 777? Is this true I've never heard of it before. -David Lee

Maybe the only use them at night?

He must have been wrong.

 

NAV lights are the most "mandatory" lights there is.

Blimey that would be an interesting revelation. I doubt it though - as Jaime says, they're mandatory. Could he have meant the strobes? Even then it seems unlikely.

NAV lights are only required sunset to sunrise at least in FAA regs.

Watching a replay of a Twitch stream, the streamer claimed to be part of the British Airways virtual and said SOP for BA in real life is to not use nav lights? At least on the 777? Is this true I've never heard of it before. -David Lee

 

One of the reasons I get so bent out of shape here about people using Twitch/YouTube/etc as sources is that people often spout off stupid information that they got from their best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who told them that. As Jaime mentioned, NAV lights are essentially the only lights that have a regulatory mention. In FAA-land, they must be on at night. This is the only set of lights that has an actual requirement for being lit. The landing light carries the requirement for being present/operable, but doesn't have a requirement on when they're lit (though you'll hear all sorts of "requirements" on YouTube: 10K, 18K, and other various altitudes...all false).

 

Granted, they might not light them in daylight, but they're required to be on at night for all regs I'm familiar with. The generally-accepted NAV light operation is "when power is being provided to the aircraft: GPU, APU, battery, or GEN."

 

 

ne of the reasons I get so bent out of shape here about people using Twitch/YouTube/etc as sources is that people often spout off stupid information that they got from their best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who told them that. As Jaime mentioned, NAV lights are essentially the only lights that have a regulatory mention. In FAA-land, they must be on at night. This is the only set of lights that has an actual requirement for being lit. The landing light carries the requirement for being present/operable, but doesn't have a requirement on when they're lit (though you'll hear all sorts of "requirements" on YouTube: 10K, 18K, and other various altitudes...all false).
 
Granted, they might not light them in daylight, but they're required to be on at night for all regs I'm familiar with. The generally-accepted NAV light operation is "when power is being provided to the aircraft: GPU, APU, battery, or GEN."

 

 

And order has been restored. :smile:

One of the reasons I get so bent out of shape here about people using Twitch/YouTube/etc as sources is that people often spout off stupid information that they got from their best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who told them that. As Jaime mentioned, NAV lights are essentially the only lights that have a regulatory mention. In FAA-land, they must be on at night. This is the only set of lights that has an actual requirement for being lit. The landing light carries the requirement for being present/operable, but doesn't have a requirement on when they're lit (though you'll hear all sorts of "requirements" on YouTube: 10K, 18K, and other various altitudes...all false).

 

Granted, they might not light them in daylight, but they're required to be on at night for all regs I'm familiar with. The generally-accepted NAV light operation is "when power is being provided to the aircraft: GPU, APU, battery, or GEN."

This is what BA Virtual I think are telling their pilots, that is why I wanted to make sure European regs were no different than the FAA. And it would seem odd to me a world airline like BA would have that rule when different regs around the world mean better safe than sorry and keep nav nights on at all times the aircraft is powered, day or night. - David Lee

This is what BA Virtual I think are telling their pilots, that is why I wanted to make sure European regs were no different than the FAA. And it would seem odd to me a world airline like BA would have that rule when different regs around the world mean better safe than sorry and keep nav nights on at all times the aircraft is powered, day or night. - David Lee

 

Yeah, I'd be surprised if they didn't keep them on when powered in general, but some airlines do some pretty weird stuff "because reasons."

 

 

 

Just so people know, my "best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl [...]" line is a reference to a movie to add a little humor...but I realize not everyone probably gets it, so, for those who don't:

This is what BA Virtual I think are telling their pilots, that is why I wanted to make sure European regs were no different than the FAA. And it would seem odd to me a world airline like BA would have that rule when different regs around the world mean better safe than sorry and keep nav nights on at all times the aircraft is powered, day or night. - David Lee

As a member I can confirm that this is not what BA Virtual is telling its pilots. There are a few other British Airways VA imitators out there and one of those might have adopted this SOP. Or more likely the "streamer" might have heard someone say it was BA SOP.

 

This photo clearly shows nav lights on in daylight (hopefully a link to this site is allowed by AVSIM).

 

http://www.planespotters.net/photo/687272/g-gatk-british-airways-airbus-a320-232

This photo clearly shows nav lights on in daylight (hopefully a link to this site is allowed by AVSIM).

 

Yeah, it's only a.net that isn't allowed here.

but some airlines do some pretty weird stuff "because reasons."

 

Iberia had a period in which they wanted to save fuel to the max and imposed a CI=0 (which might save on fuel but not necesarilly on money overall). Also they did stuff like turning all external lights off (except for NAV, BEACON and STROBE) almost immediately after take-off and only turned the landing lights on when 1000ft above the runway... A policy of clean aircraft all the way to glide-slope interception and things like that...

 

This sort of reminded me, for those who drive "stick-shifts", when in my driving lessons they taught me to shift into 5th gear at 50 kmh to save fuel. I tried to explain them that this kills the engine, leaves you dead without an acceleration reserve, is bad for the engine in the long run and so on... Never listened to reasons. I passed my driving exam and never ever listened to anyone trying to tell me how to properly shift gears in my car again (except for real "drivers" who knew what they were talking about).

 

 

This sort of reminded me, for those who drive "stick-shifts", when in my driving lessons they taught me to shift into 5th gear at 50 kmh to save fuel. I tried to explain them that this kills the engine, leaves you dead without an acceleration reserve, is bad for the engine in the long run and so on... Never listened to reasons. I passed my driving exam and never ever listened to anyone trying to tell me how to properly shift gears in my car again.

 

Yeah. I'd shift into 5th at 50km/h only if I was going to remain at 50 and it was flat. Otherwise, keep it in the power band - no reason to overstress the engine.

This is an extract from ICAO Annex 2 Rules of the Air

 

3.2.3.1 Except as provided by 3.2.3.5, from sunset to
sunrise or during any other period which may be prescribed by
the appropriate authority all aircraft in flight shall display:
a) anti-collision lights intended to attract attention to the
aircraft; and
b) navigation lights intended to indicate the relative path of
the aircraft to an observer and other lights shall not be
displayed if they are likely to be mistaken for these
lights.

3.2.3.5 A pilot shall be permitted to switch off or reduce
the intensity of any flashing lights fitted to meet the requirements
of 3.2.3.1, 3.2.3.2, 3.2.3.3 and 3.2.3.4 if they do or are
likely to:
a) adversely affect the satisfactory performance of duties;
or
b) subject an outside observer to harmful dazzle.

So BA Virtual are in effect wrong. Navigation lights do not flash! I have never not seen a BA aircraft day or night without its nav lights on except when they are parked.

One of the reasons I get so bent out of shape here about people using Twitch/YouTube/etc as sources is that people often spout off stupid information that they got from their best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend who heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who told them that.

I think we should stress the word 'often' here, as oppposed to 'always', just as a disclaimer as you and I both have sim-related Youtube channels Kyle I absolutely agree though, there is a hell of a lot of guesswork, conjecture and rubbish about aviation in  simming Youtube and stream channels that are not based on research or real-world sources at all. If I were to say something as outlandish and unlikely as a certain airline doesn't use nav lights on my channel, I'd have had to find that from a very reliable source.