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drewsaw2

DX10 performing poorly

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Hey guys, I need some help...

 

Last week I started playing around with DX10 for the first time to see how it would run. While the visuals look a little better (I think, it's marginal) my performance has dropped. On average I'm getting around 6-7 fps LESS when using DX10 from DX9, and I cannot figure out why. This contradicts most people's claims of the improvements and benefits they've found after switching over. 

 

I've been consuming posts and guides and Youtube videos, slowly making adjustments to FSX and NI setttings one at a time, and nothing has really helped. If I create a flight in FSX and get 28-30 fps, then I load the same flight with DX10 enabled, I'll get 22-23 fps, with occasional drops to 15fps - and some hard stutters.  

 

I haven't purchased Steve's fixer yet because I want to first make sure I can actually make it run on par with FSX performance (if not better). 

 

Syetem:

15-2500k OC 4GHz, 8gb ram, GTX 560 Ti

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Does setting the fps to unlimited help?

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If I create a flight in FSX and get 28-30 fps, then I load the same flight with DX10 enabled, I'll get 22-23 fps, with occasional drops to 15fps - and some hard stutters.

 

I really don't see any difference in fps.  DX10 Preview (and I emphasize "Preview") is broken.  It never functioned well, and it never will function well w/o Steve's fixes.  The Aces Team wanted to have a full fledge DX10 setup with Acceleration but Microsoft wanted Acceleration released immediately and the techs had no time to make DX10 work so they called it "DX10 Preview".  If there are hard stutters, then, IMHO, that's what happens with broken software that was not fully developed. 

 

DX10 is not a product that will enhance your fps although the developers stated you will get about a 10% increase in performance from just running FSX.  That happens to some but it does not happen to everyone as everyone has a different computer system setup and different FSX/NI settings.  That's the hard thing about FSX to understand.  Everyone thinks they have the same CPU and GPU and their FSX should run exactly the same.  Absolutely not true, because what one runs in FSX may not be the same as what is run in another computer system.  There are just too many variables.

 

What does DX10 give you?  Great performance?  Maybe.  Great graphics?  Maybe.  But the best part of DX10 is the ability to have shadows in your cockpit and thus more immersion in flight simulation.  With DX9, you cannot have shadows in the cockpit.

 

So, if DX10 is not working for you (and it does not for everyone for some reason), then you might want to consider moving up to P3D with DX11 and soon DX12.  This way you'll not only have shadows inside the cockpit, but also shadows from clouds and buildings and stuff like that. 

 

This forum provides a lot of suggestions for configuring your DX10 to work the best.  Steve's DX10 Fixer forum has even more suggestions but it is mostly related to his product. 

 

Bottom line:  DX10 Preview is pretty much trash as it has a lot of anomalies (not to mention it does not provide better performance for many like you).  DX10 Fixer pretty much fixes all of the problems the Microsoft techs would have fixed if they were still developing FSX (well, they are fixing FSX and that's over at Lockheed Martin where the FSX engine is getting better and better).

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If you are really interesting in giving DX10 a test drive, there is a free version of the DX10 shader fix that fixs lots of major problems and is a good place to start.  It was developed by the person who created the paid version of the DX10 Fixer.  You can get it in the AVSIM library, search for DX10 Shader Fixers V3.2.3. Other big features of DX10 beyond the dynamic cockpit shadows are the improved water visuals which include wind aware moving white caps, and a usable in game bloom effect.  Performance wise it is a mix, which can depend on your desired graphics setting. As for FSX alternatives, Jim did not mention that Dovetail Games is working on a revamped FSX which will be released in the not too distant future.  A "pre-release" version, "Flight School", will be released by the end of this month (hopefully).

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I forgot to mention the fact the water visuals are improved with DX10 Preview and weather programs can generate white caps.  I will not hold my breath for the other two alternatives although DTG said they would be released soon.

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I recently found out that some of the tweaks that give you more fps in DX9 might actually do the opposite in DX10. The Poolsize=0 for example takes Pool Management away from the CPU to the GPU, thats fine in DX9 and sometimes gives a nice performance bonus. In DX10 however, the GPU has more work to do, like calculating all the shadows and bloom lights.

Poolsize=0 gave me stutters all over when using those pretty VC shadows for example.

 

My System is quite comparable to Drew's and my 560Ti was therefore really thankful towards me for redirecting Bufferpools to the CPU again by using poolsize in FSX.cfg. ;)

 

Requires rebalancing the correct PoolSize and Reject Threshold though.... :\

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Tweaks do not work very well in FSX, especially all of the tweaks you mentioned.  It is best that you delete or move your fsx.cfg to a temporary folder and rebuild it and get rid of those evil tweaks.  There are no tweaks that are going to give you better performance, especially the BufferPool tweak.  You have a Sandy Bridge system and that should be powerful enough.  Tweaks are for the old days when CPU's were not very powerful.  I have tried all of the tweaks in existence for FSX/P3D and have found none that work and provide performance gains.  Managing your fsx sliders is the best tweak you can provide your flight simulator.

 

Best regards,

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@ Jim

 

are you sure people should even delete things like Highmemfix or Affinitymask? With Bufferpools you might be right, only difference I have seen so far is to disable or enable them. I was following the DX10 How-to-guide as well als NickN's recommendations found all over the forums.

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are you sure people should even delete things like Highmemfix or Affinitymask?

 

I'm more than positive (the highmemfix is not a tweak but an actual fix to FSX that was supposed to be included in SP2/Acceleration but the Aces Team (the developers) forgot to add it.

 

NickN does not recommend any tweaks but, if you must, he provides some suggestions for the BufferPool tweak.  Both the AffinityMask and the BufferPool tweak require expert knowledge and you just do not slap down a setting that someone else put in their config.  It's not that easy.  If you look in the CTD Forum, you will see many who have had crashes but, after rebuilding their fsx.cfg, the crashes went away.  I admit there are some who say the Affinity Mask tweak make their sim work without stuttering or and with great fps but those are definitely the exception.  I can easily get 50 to 80 fps with P3D or FSX but it does always stay at 50 to 80 fps.  Occasionally the frames will dive to single digit levels and then back up to the high fps.  I have found locking your fps to 25 or 30 fps is the best tweak anyone can recommend. 

 

Tweaks were good back before Sandy Bridge as they did provide some performance gains IF properly employed.  But some had no idea how to tweak their FSX config so they used an old program set up by Bojote that can really mess up modern systems.  This program would supposedly look at your system and then say, these are the tweaks you need for FSX to work the best.  Members would be excited but then, an occasional freeze or unexplained CTD.  They would uninstall/reinstall FSX and suddenly the sim would work great again.  Then, they would try to Bojote tweaks again and get another unexplained crash two to three months later.  They just installed a new scenery.  Lots of eye-candy.  Bojote tweaks does not like new scenery with lots of eye-candy....

 

If you want a good guide w/o tweaks, throw away the DX10 Guide and NickN's Bible and check out the AVSIM FSX Configuration guide.  It provides settings that have perfect AA in DX10 mode.  Yes, the settings are a bit high in both the fsx.cfg and NI settings, but it gives you perfect AA.  Isn't that what you want?  Does any of the tweaks from Bojote and others give you perfect AA?  No.  Especially the DX10 Guide does not as it is old (or it didn't back in the days when Paul J set it up) and NickN's Bible does provide good settings that will give you perfect AA but, like the AVSIM FSX Config Guide, has high settings, especially in the NI settings.   

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I'm more than positive (the highmemfix is not a tweak but an actual fix to FSX that was supposed to be included in SP2/Acceleration but the Aces Team (the developers) forgot to add it.

 

NickN does not recommend any tweaks but, if you must, he provides some suggestions for the BufferPool tweak.  Both the AffinityMask and the BufferPool tweak require expert knowledge and you just do not slap down a setting that someone else put in their config.  It's not that easy.  If you look in the CTD Forum, you will see many who have had crashes but, after rebuilding their fsx.cfg, the crashes went away.  I admit there are some who say the Affinity Mask tweak make their sim work without stuttering or and with great fps but those are definitely the exception.  I can easily get 50 to 80 fps with P3D or FSX but it does always stay at 50 to 80 fps.  Occasionally the frames will dive to single digit levels and then back up to the high fps.  I have found locking your fps to 25 or 30 fps is the best tweak anyone can recommend. 

 

Tweaks were good back before Sandy Bridge as they did provide some performance gains IF properly employed.  But some had no idea how to tweak their FSX config so they used an old program set up by Bojote that can really mess up modern systems.  This program would supposedly look at your system and then say, these are the tweaks you need for FSX to work the best.  Members would be excited but then, an occasional freeze or unexplained CTD.  They would uninstall/reinstall FSX and suddenly the sim would work great again.  Then, they would try to Bojote tweaks again and get another unexplained crash two to three months later.  They just installed a new scenery.  Lots of eye-candy.  Bojote tweaks does not like new scenery with lots of eye-candy....

 

If you want a good guide w/o tweaks, throw away the DX10 Guide and NickN's Bible and check out the AVSIM FSX Configuration guide.  It provides settings that have perfect AA in DX10 mode.  Yes, the settings are a bit high in both the fsx.cfg and NI settings, but it gives you perfect AA.  Isn't that what you want?  Does any of the tweaks from Bojote and others give you perfect AA?  No.  Especially the DX10 Guide does not as it is old (or it didn't back in the days when Paul J set it up) and NickN's Bible does provide good settings that will give you perfect AA but, like the AVSIM FSX Config Guide, has high settings, especially in the NI settings.   

 

 

 

Well, I cant speak for the starter of this thread but I for myself run a 2011 system with an AMD Phenom 2 X4 overclocked to 4,0 Ghz, I still have DDR2 RAM and just a 560Ti Videocard. If I had hardware like yours, I am pretty sure I wouldn't bother tweaking my sim in any way too. Thats because I'd be convinced it would run perfect at high settings with standard config.

 

However, not all simmers are part of the 1%. I don't want to push thousands of dollars/euros into a rig I use for gaming and flight simming, just because I have other hobbies too and thats just a small part of my life. I am happy when I archieve 20 - 30 FPS in my FSX because thats all I can dream of (FPS are locked externally anyways ;) ), and the Poolsize=0 tweak got me there pretty good when using DX9. Also, as we both probably know, smoothness in FSX isn't extactly measured in FPS, and with that tweak the sim just ran better.

I am very proud to say that I do 13-hour flights on the PMDG 777 and the only crashes occur when I forget to turn the pump of my watercooling on. ;) OOM's were more of a problem with that than smoothness.

 

About my AA: for DX9 I used 4xMS along with 4XSGSS forced by NVI and I was happy with that. More would give me real bad performance in overcast conditions, less would look terrible. With DX10 pretty much the same, only difference is that I use the Fixer to set 4x AA. "Perfect AA" is a very subjective term here I guess.

 

With AffinityMask its pretty much the same, when I delete it from my FSX.cfg, ASN prompts me to add it on startup and as far as I know FSX doesn't take advantage of multi-cores otherwise. Correct me if I am wrong...

 

Therefore the statement, that Tweaks are obsolete on a state-of-the-art-system is correct, but many ppl out there are not able or not willing to afford a high-end system. Drew has 8 GB RAM like me, and the same GPU. I highly doubt that without any adjustments in the fsx.cfg people like him, or me, would be able to see anything worth flying FSX instead of FS2004.

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You can't just turn on DX10 preview and expect it to work better.  You need to check the DX10 box and then quit the sim. Then you need to save your current configuration file and let FSX build a new one.  Otherwise, you have FSX trying to use

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In order to use DX10 , you need to check the preview box and then quit FSX.  Then you need to backup your configuration file and let FSX build another one when you restart.  Otherwise, you have FSX trying to use both DX9 and DX10 to do the same thing.  It works, but not well. 

 

Once you have it working, get Steve DX10 Fixer and start fixing some of the anomalies and a new sim.

 

Good luck 

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I would start with a fresh FSX install and CFG, with no addons installed, and gradually build things up. Then you can determine whether it's DX10 that is the problem, or whether it's something else.

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More test results from me: those forced VC shadows seem to be a bit much to handle for the 560ti, deactivating them gives me back my old framerates with pmdg planes.

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@ Jim

 

are you sure people should even delete things like Highmemfix or Affinitymask?

 

 

I'm more than positive (the highmemfix is not a tweak but an actual fix to FSX that was supposed to be included in SP2/Acceleration but the Aces Team (the developers) forgot to add it.

 

Unless I'm reading his post incorrectly, I have to disagree with Jim about highmemfix. My understanding is that highmemfix=1 is essential for the very reasons Jim mentions. If it wasn't important, why would DTG have it set by default in FSX-SE?

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Unless I'm reading his post incorrectly, I have to disagree with Jim about highmemfix.

 

I apologize.  I did not make myself clear.  I stated you should not install a tweak and I indicated the highmemfix=1 is not a tweak.  So, yes, fixes should be installed.  Tweaks should not be installed.  Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

 

Best regards,

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The highmemfix=1 fix, depends on whether you have FSX-MS or FSX-SE, If it's FSX-MS it is definitely needed DX9 or DX10, if you use FSX-SE though, it's now built into the base code, so that line is no longer needed. Generally FSX-SE also performs better in DX10  then it does in FSX-MS. 

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Let me start with, Jim is correct in my opinion, the less tweaks the better. I just really, really wish people would quit chasing the FPS tail. FPS means nothing in FSX, it is "Fluidity" you are looking for. I am getting fluid frame rates as low as 13 FPS at times. Forget FPS, concentrate on fluid frames. 

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@ Speirs

 

you are right with that, I have 20 FPS average with PMDG planes in cruise and around 15 near big cities. but it runs fluid so thats OK for me. But to archieve this, I definitely had to set a bufferpool and affinitymask entry as well as calculate and enter the correct texture data values for my GPU. With everything on default I'd run a slideshow....

 

These are my only tweaks and I applied them because I read a convincing explanation by someone who seemed like he know what he is talking about. ;) I wouldn't recommend throwing in stuff randomly....

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But to archieve this, I definitely had to set a bufferpool and affinitymask entry as well as calculate and enter the correct texture data values for my GPU. With everything on default I'd run a slideshow....

 

Another first!  With everything at default, I was running FSX well over 200 fps and sometimes near 300 fps depending on the view I had.  It got better with GEX installed as that program replaced the default scenery with optimized textures.  Then I added payware scenery and aircraft and things went south fast!  I think if there was a tweak that really worked well, everyone would have it installed, me included.  I've tried those tweaks and they cause anomalies such as stuttering and crashes.  You are not going to enjoy this game if you have your settings set to max and you have to use tweaks like the bufferpool and affinitymask to make it work.  Slideshows occur with high settings and not a very good computer system.  FSX uses a lot of resources when the engine has to power external scenery, weather and aircraft as it has been proven it works well in default mode with default aircraft, scenery and settings.

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@ Speirs

 

you are right with that, I have 20 FPS average with PMDG planes in cruise and around 15 near big cities. but it runs fluid so thats OK for me. But to archieve this, I definitely had to set a bufferpool and affinitymask entry as well as calculate and enter the correct texture data values for my GPU. With everything on default I'd run a slideshow....

 

These are my only tweaks and I applied them because I read a convincing explanation by someone who seemed like he know what he is talking about. ;) I wouldn't recommend throwing in stuff randomly....

There is a place for buffer pools when there is a gross differential between CPU and GPU. I cured mine by replacing my GPU with a GTX 680, no more buffer pool needed.

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Another first!  With everything at default, I was running FSX well over 200 fps and sometimes near 300 fps depending on the view I had.  It got better with GEX installed as that program replaced the default scenery with optimized textures.  Then I added payware scenery and aircraft and things went south fast!  I think if there was a tweak that really worked well, everyone would have it installed, me included.  I've tried those tweaks and they cause anomalies such as stuttering and crashes.  You are not going to enjoy this game if you have your settings set to max and you have to use tweaks like the bufferpool and affinitymask to make it work.  Slideshows occur with high settings and not a very good computer system.  FSX uses a lot of resources when the engine has to power external scenery, weather and aircraft as it has been proven it works well in default mode with default aircraft, scenery and settings.

 

Jim, I guess we are following different philosophys in this. No doubt about using factory settings is a failsafe way of running FSX. But seriously, I grew tired of chasing the newest hardware to make a 2006 sim run good at my system. Back in 2011 I built my current rig and it was considered high-end by then. It still required the twaking recommended here in the forums to make FSX run good. Now, 5 years on, if current high-end systems render tweaking obsolete, thats fine. But it won't make me remove my tweaks or stop me from recommending them if I see it fit, because they work fine for me and I simply lack the financial background of building a new PC all over. If those tweaks enable me to run FSX on almost-max settings, I see no problem in running them. When someone experiences issues with my recommendation, he is free not to use them. Again: on my system, with my tweaks and settings, I never have FSX related crashes.

 

 

There is a place for buffer pools when there is a gross differential between CPU and GPU. I cured mine by replacing my GPU with a GTX 680, no more buffer pool needed.

 

Thats the sweet spot you need to find when using. I used Poolsize=0 all the time in DX9 but that turned out to cause stutters in DX10 because my GPU had more to do. After some testing I found out that using the smallest preset in SteveFX's cfg-Editor for both Bufferpools and RT gives me best results and relieves the GPU from some work. Thats on a 560ti, if I get my hand on a 970 some day, its very well possible I dont need that anymore.

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Another first!  With everything at default, I was running FSX well over 200 fps and sometimes near 300 fps depending on the view I had...

 

 Wow, I have nearly the same setup (different monitor) and out of the box FSX got no where close to 300 fps. 150ish yes, but solid 200s with peaks to 300s, no. Even with GEX textures installed I never saw my frames go that high. Must be those Dell monitors.  :wink:

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 Wow, I have nearly the same setup (different monitor) and out of the box FSX got no where close to 300 fps. 150ish yes, but solid 200s with peaks to 300s, no. Even with GEX textures installed I never saw my frames go that high. Must be those Dell monitors.  :wink:

Somewhere in these forums I showed the proof.  I suspect I can try to do it again even though I have tons of addons by just returning my FSX back to the default.  I will provide a FSUIPC4.log when I have it done.

 

 

 

Jim, I guess we are following different philosophys in this. No doubt about using factory settings is a failsafe way of running FSX. But seriously, I grew tired of chasing the newest hardware to make a 2006 sim run good at my system. Back in 2011 I built my current rig and it was considered high-end by then. It still required the twaking recommended here in the forums to make FSX run good. Now, 5 years on, if current high-end systems render tweaking obsolete, thats fine. But it won't make me remove my tweaks or stop me from recommending them if I see it fit, because they work fine for me and I simply lack the financial background of building a new PC all over. If those tweaks enable me to run FSX on almost-max settings, I see no problem in running them. When someone experiences issues with my recommendation, he is free not to use them. Again: on my system, with my tweaks and settings, I never have FSX related crashes.

 

Well stated.  Max settings will not give you the best graphics and performance though no matter how many tweaks are installed.  Just too much eye-candy and you have to let FSX "breathe" and not trying to render 4096 textures all over the place.  Bottom line though, if you're happy, we're happy.  If you have no crashes and no stuttering, then that's awesome!  I personally have no problems with occasional stutters or other anomalies as long as it's just 'occasional'.  My goal is to have a semi-realistic takeoff and landing without a freeze or crash.  It hurts me the most when I take off, have a great flight and then come in for a landing and my system is fighting for resources and I hope the aircraft can land and I can use my other eye-candy stuff like taxiing to a gate and being able to shutdown the aircraft properly, and use GSX to off-load the baggage for my virtual passengers. 

 

Best regards,

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 Wow, I have nearly the same setup (different monitor) and out of the box FSX got no where close to 300 fps. 150ish yes, but solid 200s with peaks to 300s, no. Even with GEX textures installed I never saw my frames go that high. Must be those Dell monitors.  :wink:

 

 

Somewhere in these forums I showed the proof. I suspect I can try to do it again even though I have tons of addons by just returning my FSX back to the default. I will provide a FSUIPC4.log when I have it done.

 

Okay, I was able to get FSX back to the default settings (had to remove all those nasty .dlls from addons in the main FSX folder too or they would have loaded).  So, here's FSX at the default sitting at the active at KLAS

 

FPS_with_FSX_Acceleration.png

 

It went a bit higher as it was fluctuating between 150 and over 200 fps but this was the best reading I could get.

 

I then installed GEX which replaces the default textures and the best I could get was 262 fps.  It was fluctuating higher but capturing it at a higher reading was difficult.  Still it shows at least 262 fps.

 

FPS_with_FSX_Acceleration_with_GEX.png

 

Like I said, installing eye-candy type addons will dramatically drop these fps and they get worse and worse.  This is why you need to moderate your sliders.

 

Best regards,

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