Sign in to follow this  
twharrell

Flights over the Southern Pacific

Recommended Posts

I've read quite a lot about NAT tracks and flight planning for flights over the Atlantic, and I've read a lot about flights uisng PACOTs in the northern Pacific region, but have been having a hard time finding any info about routes in the Southern Pacific.  On SkyVector, I see there are "tracks", or airways that link the western US to the Oceanic region, yet when I look at flight plan on flightaware, it seems many airlines have their own preferred routes rather than using those defined airways.  I'm curious if there is any documentation or guidelines for flight planning flights from the Western US to Australia/New Zealand. Thanks.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

 

 


I'm curious if there is any documentation or guidelines for flight planning flights from the Western US to Australia/New Zealand.

 

Keep in mind that the entire reason for the NATs is the incredible amount of traffic going through that airspace. The Pacific, on the other hand, sees much less traffic (by comparison), and has a lot more airspace to work with. As such, random routing is much more widely accepted.

 

What exactly are you looking for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Todd,

 

Looking in PFPX for today's Pacific tracks, there are AUSOTS and PACOTS.

 

The PACOTS provide routes between western USA and Hawaii to/from Japan. The AUSOTS provide routes between eastern Australia to/from West Australia, India and south-east Asia.

 

Flying between eastern Australia and west coast USA does not have pre-assigned tracks.

 

I hope that this helps.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The routes are designed with the weather and ETOPS alternates in mind, I'm on my umpteenth KLAX-YSSY trip today using AA73 as the go-by. The route is both within 1% of great circle and it allows me to use PHNL and NSTU as alternates for ETOPS-180 planning. The complete route can be found at flightaware.com.  I recently discovered that Quanta has flights from YSSY to SCEL Santiago Chili and plan to try to plan that within ETOPS 180, unfortunately overseas flights usually do not have their flightplans appearing at flightaware.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The routes are designed with the weather and ETOPS alternates in mind, I'm on my umpteenth KLAX-YSSY trip today using AA73 as the go-by. The route is both within 1% of great circle and it allows me to use PHNL and NSTU as alternates for ETOPS-180 planning. The complete route can be found at flightaware.com.  I recently discovered that Quanta has flights from YSSY to SCEL Santiago Chili and plan to try to plan that within ETOPS 180, unfortunately overseas flights usually do not have their flightplans appearing at flightaware.

I'm seeing a flight plan, usually Australia has good Flightaware coverage. here is QFA28. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA28

 

DGO1 DGO DCT 37S075W/N0498F300 3830S07712W 42S083W 46S090W/N0487F320 51S099W 57S112W/N0483F340 59S119W 61S130W 6109S13100W 62S139W 62S140W 62S150W 61S158W 58S170W/M084F360 52S178E 4651S17006E 46S169E/M084F380 4432S16659E 43S165E 4141S16300E 41S162E DCT PLUGA DCT SHARK N774 TESAT

 

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/QFA27/

 

DCT OPTIC DCT 35S153E 44S155E/M085F330 4500S15530E 46S156E 50S159E 5413S16300E 56S165E 58S168E 62S178E 65S169W/M084F350 67S152W 67S138W 6630S13100W 65S120W/N0481F370 60S102W 57S095W 5405S09000W/N0478F370 DCT 52S087W/N0478F380 4700S08139W 44S079W/N0479F400 3830S07421W CAR UT105 TILKO

 

 

-David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm seeing a flight plan, usually Australia has good Flightaware coverage. here is QFA28. https://flightaware....ve/flight/QFA28

 

Yup, I had a look. Thanks for the tip.  I note that they use the B744, which opens the door to much flexibility in route planning compared to the twin B77x.  I'll remember this when we finally get into PMDG 747v2 beta testing. Thanks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks guys. That's kind of what I thought but just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

sometimes the flightaware routes do not display on the page until an hour or less before the fight. in America they mostly come up earlier. LAN flies a 787 on that route from Chile to Australia. I can't wait to have the 747v2 and fly all those interesting routes! - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yup, I had a look. Thanks for the tip.  I note that they use the B744, which opens the door to much flexibility in route planning compared to the twin B77x.  I'll remember this when we finally get into PMDG 747v2 beta testing. Thanks.

Hi Dan,

 

I was hoping you would have said, "while beta testing the 747v2 I have tried some of these routes"' rather than saying, 'when we finally get into PMDG 747v2 beta testing",....So, the big girl is still in the factory and not released for flight testing!!!  

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Pacific it's mostly User-Prefered-Routings. So you plan for prevailing winds and weather. Other than that you have to plan a waypoint every 80min and/or at FIR boundaries. Also position reports via HF, when available, or FANS 1/A. 

 

Especially in the Southern Pacific, you have no other options than using a 4-holer as equipment because of the lack of alternate airports. Same goes for the South Atlantic/southern Indian Ocean. For example I did QFA64 (FAOR-YSSY) yesterday and the only alternates where FALE, FIMP and then YPPH (and later YMML). If you're going Australia - US West Coast there are a lot more options.

 

Interesting article discussing the matter:

http://aviationweek.com/business-aviation/operating-south-pacific


Routings, at least in case of Qantas, mostly show up on Flightaware two hours preceding the departure for flights you are looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Interesting article discussing the matter:

Great article. Validates my choices of NSTU and Hawaiian locations for ETOPS planning. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well spotted by Geoff, for those seeking an update on 747v2. I'm surprised Robert or Kyle have not picked up on this. Maybe they hope nobody has noticed this embarrassing piece of news!!

 

Bernard Walford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


So, the big girl is still in the factory and not released for flight testing!!!

 

Correct, as would be evidenced by the lack of an update saying it has entered beta. Not sure where all of this speculation about the status of the aircraft is. The last time we posted anything about it, it was in Alpha.

 

 

 


I'm surprised Robert or Kyle have not picked up on this. Maybe they hope nobody has noticed this embarrassing piece of news!!

 

I don't see how this is embarrassing, exactly. We don't give people timelines, so it's not like we missed a deadline somewhere. Instead, it seems people are making their own inferences on how development should be progressing, and getting upset we aren't meeting their own versions of that.

 

Ever stop to think that it's posts like this that make us a little hesitant to go out of our way to show things off?

 

Best not to kick up drama where it isn't necessary...

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct, as would be evidenced by the lack of an update saying it has entered beta. Not sure where all of this speculation about the status of the aircraft is. The last time we posted anything about it, it was in Alpha.

 

 

 

 

I don't see how this is embarrassing, exactly. We don't give people timelines, so it's not like we missed a deadline somewhere. Instead, it seems people are making their own inferences on how development should be progressing, and getting upset we aren't meeting their own versions of that.

 

Ever stop to think that it's posts like this that make us a little hesitant to go out of our way to show things off?

 

Best not to kick up drama where it isn't necessary...

Okay but... is there a release date for the 747v2 yet??? - David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay but... is there a release date for the 747v2 yet??? - David Lee

 

Same as all of our release dates:

 

When it releases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello Kyle,

 

Apologies if my enthusiasm for all things PMDG has strayed into mistaken assumptions, but I was under the impression - wrongly, obviously - that 747v2 was already in beta testing. The news that it isn't will give followers an indication of a likely timescale for roll-out in the absence of more definite information.

 

Please don't hesitate to show things off and may PMDG keep on with it's excellent work at the forefront of FS technology. I'm as anxious as anyone to hear progress on the update to my favourite aircraft. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I do quite a bit of flying in this region as a Coast Guard C-130 Pilot stationed out of Hawaii, as other people have mentioned there is not much out there, we can often get away with filing Lat Lons direct if we don't take one of the airways, other than that you spend most of your time talking on HF and doing position reports.  Definitely unique flying, and airports!  Explore some of the islands in Kiribati where 737s operate, it will definitely be a change of pace!

 

-Matt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Especially in the Southern Pacific, you have no other options than using a 4-holer as equipment because of the lack of alternate airports

I hope I have not mis understood you. ANZ use 777's and 787 across the southern pacific and soon to be joined later this year by AAL and UAL to Auckland. (787 and 777 respectively )  ANZ has specific ETOPS certification  which I think is 207 mins..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope I have not mis understood you. ANZ use 777's and 787 across the southern pacific and soon to be joined later this year by AAL and UAL to Auckland. (787 and 777 respectively )  ANZ has specific ETOPS certification  which I think is 207 mins..

Care to share those flight numbers?  I'd like to see their routing for curiosity sake.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That Aviation Week article that was posted was very informative. Thanks!

 

Flights from KLAX to NZAA:

 

http://i.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/73911913/American-Airlines-to-fly-Auckland-LA-route

 

ANZ 1 and ANZ 5 (777-200/300 service)

 

PRCH1 FICKY 3000N/12300W 2500N/12800W 2000N/13300W 1500N/13700W 1000N/14100W ANJJE 0100N/15000W 0500S/15706W 1000S/16100W KINAG 2000S/16800W 2500S/17200W 3000S/17700W 3435S/17738E EXOPI AA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

KLAX-NZAA are not really southern pacific flights, more sort of trans pacific. Of note, we try to stay out of Tahiti airspace as the user charges are very high.

 

The main one is NZAA-SAEZ (NZ30/31) EDTO 330 with the 777-200LR. Rumour has it the 787-900 will take over this route eventually.

 

NZAA DCT AA H372 TULMI GOKAG 45W70 48W60 51W50 53W40 55W30 56W20 56W10

55W00 5290W 4680W MON UM658 BAR UW34 BCA UW22 EZE DCT SEAZ

 

11:26 flight time. (UPR)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this