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changing default scenery cfg order

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your thoughts about change the default priority order in in the Scenery CFG for FSX Accel

 

From

 

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To          (Area of interest is from area 099 Down)

 

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The reason for doing this is to help with loading ,, stutters/smoothness,,,, or don't you think it will make a difference

 

Thank You

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do you think it will make a difference?

No.

 

As near as I can tell, your changes will make no difference.

 

The only time priority matters is when you have more than one area for the same geographic area and none of those areas overlap.

 

Of course you can always test your proposal and revert back if you need to.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

regards,

Joe


The best gift you can give your children is your time.

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Thanks Joe

 

the other reason why I thought it might make a difference is default does not have them in sequence ,,, the way I have changed them gives North America higher priority and puts them in sequence and as far as the other country's and city's I put them the best I thought they would work,  so it should take less searching to poll the files to load them during loading and also during flight ,,, if Aces set things up in a logical order

 

Thank you fellow simmers

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,,, if Aces set things up in a logical order

 

 

The guys at ACES were a lot smarter and logical than you give them credit for. What your trying to do and accomplish isn't going to make any loading improvements at all.

 

You don't think ACES would have easily changed the order if it would have made a difference?


Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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Are we talking HDD or SSD?

 

HDD: the files on your disk have no natural order. They are saved in fragments wherever the OS finds free clusters. Loading the next file always necessitates a lookup in the FAT anyway, and there are all other files in that table too - so access times are purely statistical. From a mathematical standpoint, ordering them would actually make access times slower. But you will never notice this.

A different matter are loading times of a single large file - this will be done faster if the file is not fragmented, and no other disk processes are triggered at the same time, which would force the heads to reposition. There is a lot of that going on on Windows machines, so your first step would have to be to optimize your system, get rid of Antivirus and each and every service that is not needed - bare bones, so to speak.

 

SSD: you don't have any control over access times at all. The SSD has its own internal memory controller, that does things just like it sees fit.


Oliver Binder

LORBY-SI

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Most "file polling" is related to scenery object definitions which are not geo-locked.  These object bgl files are read regardless of the ordering in scenery.cfg.  Most other bgl files have geo extants so only need to be read within the geo bounds.

 

scott s.

.

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The guys at ACES were a lot smarter and logical than you give them credit for. What your trying to do and accomplish isn't going to make any loading improvements at all.

 

You don't think ACES would have easily changed the order if it would have made a difference?

 Not to discredit Aces

 

but if they were smarter then I think or most people think ,,, why did they use the display engine they used, and not one that is GPU bond instead of CPU ?????

Are we talking HDD or SSD?

 

HDD: the files on your disk have no natural order. They are saved in fragments wherever the OS finds free clusters. Loading the next file always necessitates a lookup in the FAT anyway, and there are all other files in that table too - so access times are purely statistical. From a mathematical standpoint, ordering them would actually make access times slower. But you will never notice this.

A different matter are loading times of a single large file - this will be done faster if the file is not fragmented, and no other disk processes are triggered at the same time, which would force the heads to reposition. There is a lot of that going on on Windows machines, so your first step would have to be to optimize your system, get rid of Antivirus and each and every service that is not needed - bare bones, so to speak.

 

SSD: you don't have any control over access times at all. The SSD has its own internal memory controller, that does things just like it sees fit.

 I have my OS and FSX on SSD Samsung 850 pro

Most "file polling" is related to scenery object definitions which are not geo-locked.  These object bgl files are read regardless of the ordering in scenery.cfg.  Most other bgl files have geo extants so only need to be read within the geo bounds.

 

scott s.

.

 

 I am not sure I understand all this ,, What is geo-locked

 

Thanks to all

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but if they were smarter then I think or most people think ,,, why did they use the display engine they used, and not one that is GPU bond instead of CPU ?????

 

Because back when FSX was released we were using gtx8800 cards if we were lucky, you really would not want to be GPU bound back then.

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Not to discredit Aces

 

but if they were smarter then I think or most people think ,,, why did they use the display engine they used, and not one that is GPU bond instead of CPU ?????

 

Remember we're talking about software that was written 10 years ago to take advantage of the hardware available at that time. Most users weren't on 64 bit operating systems, video cards with 1 GB RAM onboard didn't exist and we mostly using dual core CPU's.

 

That being said, what other model should they have used? The only other global entertainment models available are X-plane and Outerra that is still being worked on. Don't confuse Global models with a "map" models like what DCS or other video games use.

 

The base engine that FSX uses is fine and continues to be refined, that's why Lockheed Martin and Dovetail Games are still working with it and improving it.

 

If your a wizard and think you can out do what ACES did at that time, then go ahead, but don't make them out to be fools who couldn't even place a scenery.cfg in a correct or logical order.


Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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 Not to discredit Aces

 

but if they were smarter then I think or most people think ,,, why did they use the display engine they used, and not one that is GPU bond instead of CPU ?????

 I have my OS and FSX on SSD Samsung 850 pro

 

 I am not sure I understand all this ,, What is geo-locked

 

Thanks to all

 

"If they were smarter..." You are passing this judgement based on what? The ACES team where highly trained professional software engineers, who had been doing this for almost 20 years - there was nobody on this planet better qualified for the job. They implemented the solution that they thought would do best what they wanted it to deliver - an open, fully configurable flight simulator platform - not a hardcoded pretty-pictures-machine. They didn't choose any engine, they implemented the whole thing themselves - within the limits that technology and their own company set for them. You cannot make a GPU do FDE, custom gauge or AI calculations and you cannot fight management either, especially when they kick you out...Making FSX was a huge effort. Just an example what this could mean in numbers: assuming a team with on average 10 people working 4 years full time on the project, that equals around 70.000 hours of work. Seventy thousand hours - if you try to replicate this as a single developer guy, then it would take you 40 years - full time, doing nothing else as a job. At a standard rate these are around 5 million dollars of internal cost. I think it is safe to assume that they carefully considered, designed and planned what they were doing.

 

"Have my OS and FSX on an SSD": then you can stop fiddling with the scenery order. It makes no difference at all (and as stated above, neither does it on a HDD). If anything you may actually make matters worse.

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Oliver Binder

LORBY-SI

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 I am not sure I understand all this ,, What is geo-locked

 

 

In FSX there's two ways to create custom scenery  objects.  You can place the object's model data alongside the placement (postion) data, in which case the model only can exist within the geo extants of its bgl file.  The other way is to place the model(s) in a library file.  Then use a separate bgl to define the placement.  Models in a library file can be placed anywhere in the world, and FSX seems to constantly read the contents of these libraries (even if the library just contains terminals for a specific airport for example ).  But I don't know that this actually affects performance in any measurable degree.

 

scott s.

.

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Because back when FSX was released we were using gtx8800 cards if we were lucky, you really would not want to be GPU bound back then.

 

may be not but I think it could of been divided up better between cpu and gpu

Remember we're talking about software that was written 10 years ago to take advantage of the hardware available at that time. Most users weren't on 64 bit operating systems, video cards with 1 GB RAM onboard didn't exist and we mostly using dual core CPU's.

 

That being said, what other model should they have used? The only other global entertainment models available are X-plane and Outerra that is still being worked on. Don't confuse Global models with a "map" models like what DCS or other video games use.

 

The base engine that FSX uses is fine and continues to be refined, that's why Lockheed Martin and Dovetail Games are still working with it and improving it.

 

If your a wizard and think you can out do what ACES did at that time, then go ahead, but don't make them out to be fools who couldn't even place a scenery.cfg in a correct or logical order.

 

 That being said, what other model should they have used? The only other global entertainment models available are X-plane and Outerra that is still being worked on. Don't confuse Global models with a "map" models like what DCS or other video games use.

 

No body said any thing about model or any other GAME and FSX is not a game it is a Simulator

 

and I also stated NOT TO DISCREDIT ACES

 

I asked a question looking for help and support and it seems like most replies want to argue ,,, that is not what I am looking for  

 

"The base engine that FSX uses is fine and continues to be refined, that's why Lockheed Martin and Dovetail Games are still working with it and improving it."

 

That is why their is still stutters and micro shimmers in P3D and FSX Steam

 

""If your a wizard and think you can out do what ACES did at that time, then go ahead, but don't make them out to be fools who couldn't even place a scenery.cfg in a correct or logical order.""

 

NOBODY IS MAKING ACES A FOOL , I just asked a question and also said it did not make sense to me why the order was the way they had it ,,, DONT TWIST IT AROUND

 

AND IF YOU CANT POST A REPLY THAT HLEPS OR ANSWERS A QUESTION WITH OUT GETTING RUD ,,, DONT REPLY AT ALL !!!!!!!!!

"If they were smarter..." You are passing this judgement based on what? The ACES team where highly trained professional software engineers, who had been doing this for almost 20 years - there was nobody on this planet better qualified for the job. They implemented the solution that they thought would do best what they wanted it to deliver - an open, fully configurable flight simulator platform - not a hardcoded pretty-pictures-machine. They didn't choose any engine, they implemented the whole thing themselves - within the limits that technology and their own company set for them. You cannot make a GPU do FDE, custom gauge or AI calculations and you cannot fight management either, especially when they kick you out...Making FSX was a huge effort. Just an example what this could mean in numbers: assuming a team with on average 10 people working 4 years full time on the project, that equals around 70.000 hours of work. Seventy thousand hours - if you try to replicate this as a single developer guy, then it would take you 40 years - full time, doing nothing else as a job. At a standard rate these are around 5 million dollars of internal cost. I think it is safe to assume that they carefully considered, designed and planned what they were doing.

 

"Have my OS and FSX on an SSD": then you can stop fiddling with the scenery order. It makes no difference at all (and as stated above, neither does it on a HDD). If anything you may actually make matters worse.

 

I stated my opinion PERIOD ,,,,   based on reading post and documents and the post were from NickN ,,

 

I don't know who you are ,,, and I don't care that you are a Developer, but you come at me that way ,,, you will get it back ,,, and if you are a Developer, you should have better people skills,,,

 

that's enough for you ,,,

 

if you are not going to help ,,, then don't bother posting

 

and I also stated NOT TO DISCREDIT ACES

 

In FSX there's two ways to create custom scenery  objects.  You can place the object's model data alongside the placement (postion) data, in which case the model only can exist within the geo extants of its bgl file.  The other way is to place the model(s) in a library file.  Then use a separate bgl to define the placement.  Models in a library file can be placed anywhere in the world, and FSX seems to constantly read the contents of these libraries (even if the library just contains terminals for a specific airport for example ).  But I don't know that this actually affects performance in any measurable degree.

 

scott s.

.

 

Scott

 

Thank You

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Well Ace, you opened yourself up to critisism and discussion when you said:

 

if Aces set things up in a logical order

 

And

 

Not to discredit Aces

 

but if they were smarter then I think or most people think ,,, why did they use the display engine they used, and not one that is GPU bond instead of CPU ?????

 

Had you not said that, no one would have come at you with the replies you got.

 

The simple fact is that they designed the engine and made it as good as they could based on the time they had, the budget they had, and the computer equipment that was available then.

 

In the future if you don't want to invite critisism or comments then avoid making statements like you did. Of course you're entitled to post your opinion but don't take offense when others post theirs as well if it's correcting something or setting a fact straight.


Avsim Board of Directors | Avsim Forums Moderator

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Jim

the key words are NOT TO DISCREDIT ACES

 

which means I am not discrediting any thing they did ,, just saying some of the things they did do not make sense,,, now if their is a reason for doing what they did it would be nice to know

 

and as far as criticism , I can accept constructive criticism ,, which was not done, just hammering on me for my opinion which is wrong  

 

and their was defiantly nothing be corrected or facts being said ,,, it was just opinions  

 

Thank You

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We don't know who you are either. But never, ever, assume you can come here and tell other members what they can, and cannot, do. If you're not ready for the answer, don't ask the question. As you have yourself have said "...that's enough for you".

 

Doug

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