Cargostorm

Immersion factor: VR glasses or curved UHD/4K monitor

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Hi,

 

if planning for the purchase of a new display for P3D, would you invest your money

 

1. in a Oculus Rift or HTC Vive Virtual Reality glasses, or

 

2. in a curved G-sync 34'' 21:9 UHD IPS monitor such as Acer Predator X34 or the new Asus ROG PG348Q?

 

Option 1 would give you a favourable 3D experience, but the current echnology requires high fps.

 

Look forward to your opinions.

 

Best Regards,

Chris

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I would go with a big monitor, perhaps coupled with TrackIR.

With VR glasses, you're "blind", which makes it hard to press buttons and keys or even find the throttle etc.

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Forgot to mention that I use TrackIR already. As to VR, usually you do not look at the yoke, mouse or throttles anyway - you just grasp and feel them. It might be an issue though when using charts.

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Definitely not VR for me. I experience eye strain when using VR for more than 15 minutes. I can't imagine how my eyes will be if flying P3D with VR for more than half an hour. If I have the money and space, I will opt for 3 big TV.

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In all honesty Chris, I just bought a 55' 4K UHD TV (Samsung), and it is without doubt the the biggest single immersive impact of all of my upgrades. I have always used TrackIR. A large TV with TIR is amazing. I'm not sure why you have opted for that particular curved monitor, but a 34' seems really small.

 

VR is still too novel and not ready for prime time with regards flightsimming. As you've rightly pointed out, the requirement for high fps voids the option.

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If you are only going to use the screen for flight sim then don't get a monitor, get the largest curved 4K TV you can afford / fit on your desk.

 

For roughly the same cost of those 34" g-sync monitors you could get something like the SAMSUNG UE55JU7500, a large 4K screen will provide a far more immersive experience than the 21:9 ultrawide monitors; and flight sims gain nothing from g-sync anyway.

 

I'm talking as someone who has tried both, using P3D.

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I'm not sure why you have opted for that particular curved monitor, but a 34' seems really small.

 

The reason is that they are the only ones that currently support G-sync. As they are not 4k but 3440 x 1440, one could also gain some fps. But I agree that a larger monitor for the desk would even be better than 34''.

 

 

 

flight sims gain nothing from g-sync anyway.

 

I am currently at 60 Hz and vsync on, which gives 60fps. In heavy situation with airliners, fps will drop below 60 fps, which makes TrackIr unsmooth. What I heard is that you get smoothness with G-sync down to 30 Hz. With GA airplanes I am able to maintain 100 fps in easy situations, so G-sync would make sense, especially when the monitor is able to deliver 100Hz.

 

That said, vsync will only be smooth when you are able to deliver 60 fps @ 60 Hz monitor. G-Sync however will continously adjust the monitor frequency dependent on the fps that the video card delivers, e.g. 30 fps @ 30Hz, 50fps @ 50Hz or 90fps @ 90Hz etc. If you get less than 30fps, G-sync will work as vsync and the monitor will maintain 30Hz.

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The issue is about the distance, a bigger screen has a bigger visual acuity distance (the optimal distance where you can take advantage a bigger screen, without seeing the pixels), so in example a 55" TV need to be placed at around 180cm from you, while a 34" monitor at around 90cm, doing some math you will see that you have "wasted" a big chunk of the bigger screen moving it away from you, so the apparent size will be similar to a 34" placed next to you .. to not count that the monitors normally have a better quality (less screen door effect) and a better response (ms).

 

Red is the 34" monitor (the proportion are wrong.. but it's to show the meaning):

 

iPpPuU9.jpg

 

Now you say: but I can place a 55" at 90cm from my eyes... surely you can do it, and it will cover all your peripheral sight, giving the impression of a more immersive visual.. but: 1) the screen is not distorted at the borders, so the picture will be flat (so not you would see in real life); 2) the pixels (part of) will be more visible... to not consider the stress for your sight.

 

That's my idea.. but then anyone has theirs. :)

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Lol, is that stuff about viewing distance still being pushed? With 4k sit as close as you want.

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Great explanation, npole, which might be the reason why 34'' is the typical size for a high-end gaming monitor.

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so the apparent size will be similar to a 34" placed next to you

 

 

I don't think viewing distances when flight simming are comparable to viewing distances when watching normal TV. When watching normal TV I don't want to have to move my head around to keep up with the action, but when viewing a near life size virtual cockpit on my 65 inch Samsung 4K screen, it's completely natural to have to move my head to look around the cockpit, and for outside views. This is why I'm happy to sit 80cm (about 2.5 ft) from the 65 inch screen when simming, but sit further away if watching TV.

Just my 2 cents

Eugene

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It's not about moving your head or not, it's about the picture quality, otherwise we will all purchase a nice and big 4K TV, instead of spending thousand bucks for a 34" PC monitor. TV's performs great for watching TV... monitor performs great for playing videogames, they are different and they are meant to be different.

But hey, if you're happy by sitting at 80cm. from a 65" TV... then great for you! :)

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I have both VR Vive and Oculus and a 4K curved screen 65" tv. My primary goal is to be as realistic as possible for training and learning. I can directly compare VR to a large monitor for this purpose. I have the screen set at approximately panel distance from my eyes (around 36 to 39") which does not cause any eye strain.

 

4K Screen

 

1. You can size the aircraft to be real life size. If I measure the size of say a 172 panel on the screen it is the same as the size of the panel in the real aircraft.

 

2. At 4K the image is sharp and nice to look at.

 

3. Trackir gives a reasonable but not great representation of looking around.

 

4. Even with a lot of hardware panels, switches etc. you still know you are sitting in your sim cockpit and to be realistic the hardware has to change and move for each different aircraft.

 

VR HMD and Flyinside

 

1. The absolute 100% best immersion factor. You are IN the aircraft! You can't be told about it or view it on video, you have to try it to truly understand this statement.

 

2. Resolution no where near as good as 4K screen. With the CV1 and Vive it is much much better than the DK2 but still a long way from the sharpness of 4K. You can now read all the dials and radio freq even if you have to lean over which you can. I believe resolution will improve over the next year or two as hardware and software adapt to VR.

 

3. Control input. This may be the hardest nut to crack for simming as our control needs are a lot more complicated than other games and stuff. However there are thing that work now such as the Leap implementation in Flyinside and I have found the speech recognition software like VoiceAttack can be a very powerful tool for simulation. On balance the controls can be successfully dealt with in VR today.

 

4. Costs for similar display setup. With VR what you basically have is a 360 deg spherical display. I don't know what it would cost to create such a display with projectors or monitors but it is well into 6 figures if not 7. With VR you get it for $500 to $700.

 

 

So which is better? I still have and enjoy both but I am using VR more and more just because of the wow level immersion factor.

 

 

Terry

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TV's performs great for watching TV... monitor performs great for playing videogames,

Of course there is a difference, but it's the experience that counts. My experience is massively enhanced by a 55' TV at about 90-100cm. Can I see pixels if I look for them? Yes. Do I notice pixels when I'm not looking for them? No. On any day, I will opt for a bigger UHD screen over a smaller monitor - regardless of the finer nuances which may make a monitor, 'more suitable' for gaming. The TrackIR compensates for peripheral distortions because you can make any point of view the center of your image. I don't particularly notice 'distortions'.

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The real beauty of massive screens or Projectors is it can give you a closer to real cockpit to scale experience so the sim starts to resemble a life like virtual cockpit something you just cant get on a smaller monitor . 

 

Always buy the biggest you can afford because you will adjust to the size quickly and wish you had gone bigger!!

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