It may be their paintkit, but whats the point of it if you cant paint what you want if its allready been created, and then upload your artwork? Im not ###### at them charging for repaints, its more like them limiting what you can paint, and then where you can put your artwork.I really must say, these guys deserve a beer for what they created, and i love the price, but its just having that restriction as a freeware artist that doesnt let you put your work where you want.

If you use the paint kit for your texture, then you're using the paint kit. If you just look at it, but create you texture on a black 1024X1024 then technically, your texture is yours and yours only.Many aircraft (mostly freeware, but some payware) don't have real pant kits. Carenado do not release paintkits, MAAM did not release a paint kit for most variations. Yet, people make repaints.That it for the legals stuff.Now for the illegal - if you'd use the paint kit, but change all textues - IE create photoreal textures for example, or oidfy them - then from the bmp files no one can tell what you used as a base (unless you don't do that very well).But I don't care about that. I won't paint them, because I won't buy this plane (at these terms) so its irrelevant (for me).But I do want PSS to know, that the only reason for me not to support their product, which I belive is very good, is this repaint limiting policy.http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

What kind of perverse logic entails that since PSS are "stealing" from the airlines its ok for someone to steal from PSS? One can't take vengeance in that manner, especially when they haven't been harmed themselves. It just doesn't work this way. Society has moved on a long time ago from this kind of thinking. I think that PSS deserves some common courtesy, if not else, at least for their sincere efforts to make this hobby a bit better and some peoples' lives a bit more interesting.

You know what still kills me about this thread and many previous ones similar to it: Once again it's people complaining about a business's policy as if they're completely powerless. In the very first post here we have someone royally ###### yet who STILL BOUGHT THE PRODUCT knowing that this practice he disagrees with was happening. A business doesn't exist without people buying its product. In a market economy, if you don't like what a business is doing, you don't buy their product despite that and then complain about it.Then we have the famous "monopoly" charge happening further in the thread. PSS is not a monopoly - you have a ton of other choices for commercial aircraft addons out there and there is very healthy competition in this market. Saying that PSS has a "monopoly" on it's own 777 product is ridiculous - of course they do, it's their product and they have a right to do whatever they want with it. They're not actively preventing someone like PMDG or LDS from creating a competing 777 are they? That's a monopoly, not setting prices/rules on liveries for their own product. People like to throw these words around without really knowing what they mean in business or economics terms and it gets pretty old.

Since FS developers tend not to create the same aircraft, PSS IS effectivly a monopoly on quality 777. LDS would not develop a 777, nether will PMDG in the near future.So, if you like the 777 best, you'd buy it. I don't care much for it (not more than for say, a 777 or a 744) so I won't buy it.And I will still complain out loud, as loud as I can and everywhere.Because had the repaint policy were different, I would have liked to get this plane. I might still get it, if I see that repaints are made (against the will of PSS) for the airlines I like.http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

>>I think that PSS deserves some common courtesy, if not else,>at least for their sincere efforts to make this hobby a bit>better and some peoples' lives a bit more interesting. >They are doing business. Nothing more. Nothing less.http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

Hi Ryan,I'll use your words Ryan, "Once again" its someone jumping in without reading and then makes a statement that is incorrect.If you would have actually read my second post, you would have seen that I said the following:"I already pre-purchased the package. I must admit, at the time of purchase I had "NO IDEA" I would have to "BUY" their repaints as well or else I cannot fly the carriers I want to fly for (Ex. Delta, United, and so on)."Also keep in mind, as a result of my post and the backing from the flightsim community, PSS has changed their policy and the paints that they offer for sale are allowed to be created using their paintkit.

For such a lucrative monopoly that PSS run they appear to be pricing their products very reasonably...Instead of offering the plane on such a bargain price and have people moaning, they should just sell the full package at the full price and have people moaning. They'd probably make more money too since apparently flight simmers are not the kind of people who vote with their wallets. We hate you but we buy anyway...IMO the urge to have fifty different repaints of the same plane is a bit extreme but that's what capitalism is there for. You have "exotic" tastes, you pay more to satisfy them. On a side note, I hate it when people post just to drive their post count up (you know who you are ;) ).Edit: Just remembered that feelthere are doing a 777 as well. It seems that those ruthless capitalists from PSS will finally get what they deserve... An end to their cursed monopoly on this huge market for T7 addons for FS.

Of, you take it to the extreme. Why not make it a socialist/capitalist issue? That really makes sense.The PSS 777 base package is not cheap. Not very expensie, but not cheap. Don't go telling me they 'saved on the base pack and make money on the repaints'. I'd rather they didn't do any repaint at all, and let the coimmunity have a go.If you can have (for a reasonable price) only one or two repaints, then for me it's not right. Keep in mind that if you buy just one model and 4 repaints it's 35 pound. It's an expensive product. Period.I don't need 50 repaints, but I need to be able to picj whatever repaint I like when it's available. What PSS are telling us is that we are not free to make our repaints available.This is not a socialist/capitalist issue. This is a consumer/developer issue. I truly fail to see why would the FS consumer defend so fiercly a developer policy that hurts them.I feel PSS's conduct is not fair, and (I say again) I will no buy their products at these terms.Too bad you will.http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

I won't buy it because I don't need it.I don't defend PSS, or any commercial entity, just because. e.g. I remember myself having posted very heated remarks against Pete Dawson's decision to turn FSUIPC commercial. In fact I still have this romantic belief that FSUIPC should be a "public good" of some sort.Having said that, PSS's business model doesn't hurt me at all. On the contrary I find it very suitable to my FS "lifestyle". I think you would too if you thought about it. You downplayed my proposition to show some common courtesy towards them because they are merely a business and yet you are being sentimental on what concerns your "rights" as a consumer. I.E. complaining that they don't let you play for free with their new toy.PSS's obligations extend to providing you you with the product they advertised and to support such product over a period of time. If you think that they do something illegal you can always notify the relevant authorities. Fairness does not come into the equation at this stage and they are definitely NOT doing anything illegal to you...

Don't get me wrong. I don't think I have any right, but the right not to buy it. But I do feel this policy is unfair towards the community. At least compared to what we are used to.I don't care if they are doing anything illegal towards the airliners, I'm sure the airliners can defend themselves well enough...http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

>>Chase,>>Thats pretty much it! The ONLY exception is if we are>offering a commercial repaint of XYZ airlines and a freeware>painter wants us to host their version of XYZ which naturally>we can't do.Right there, that's how PSS steers away from the problem. You don't have a "legal" case anymore.They don't tell you you can't do it anymore. But if they don't prove or host a custom repaint you can't point your legal finger at them. And if you submit a repaint to other places without their review, it won't last long or end pretty. So now what?PSS won't change their repaint policy. But then they can't change the fact that people feel negative and bash it in a major community forum like this EVERYTIME they have a new release. The bigger the release the bigger the bash, we guarantee it. They don't need to tell us the policy is years old so this arguement is invalid. It stays valid as long as their policy does.As someone said, PSS is doing business, nothing more nothing less. Then let them decide the overall results of their repaint policy. If they decide right they make some more profit, if wrong, some less. That's all.One thing I know for sure. They are not getting any money from me for the 777 and that's ALL because of their repaint policy. I don't say it's right or wrong. I just don't like it so I don't make the purchase. That simple. And if I can skip a PSS 777 I can skip PSS anything, unless they make FS10.What PSS will see is:A lot of people buy repaint - they make moneySome people decide not to purchase at all - they lose moneyMANY people will merge their panel with Meljet - no money for their repaints anyway.PSS why don't you offer a couple of free repaints together with each model purchase. You might end up with some more profit at the end of the day. Just a thought.Jason

>Also keep in mind, as a result of my post and the backing from>the flightsim community, PSS has changed their policy and the>paints that they offer for sale are allowed to be created>using their paintkit.I dont think it was removed because of this thred, I think it was removed because it was misinterpreted, I'm pretty sure they meant you couldnt repaint a livery they already offerd AND upload it to somewhere else. I dont think they ever meant you couldnt paint it at all.However, I still dissagree with the policy, release a paintkit and encourge the community to build upon it, allow them to upload to avsim, if the paint is poorly done someone else will do it better and we the community will have the option to get whatever paint we want in whatever quality we want.......for free. I think that will make the addon live longer.

DONT stir this pot. Please. Just dont buy from PSS.It took a really long time to get the AA logo police to back off on this and the other airlines really dont need to have this stirred up. I think you'd hurt the hobby in a big way.Eric

The deal is you cant distribute a paint they already made. Where I tend to get chapped on this is when they say you can repaint a livery they havent done, but your work has to be approved by them before distribution. forget THAT. I can paint as well or better than anybody they have on staff. I dont need anybodys approval on my work. The hubris of these people is amazing. I just dont buy their products any more. Tons of great quality stuff out there without the silly restrictions.Eric