If I was in PSS's shoes I would just forget about this whole FS addon business. It must suck to listen to this bull everyday. I suppose you would complain if they raised the price of the base package and INCLUDED repaints for free as well right?Let's not forget PMDG pretty much introduced this whole free repaints idea for payware. I didn't hear too many complaints about the PSS policy before the PMDG 737 hit the steets did you?Why do PSS need to pay royalties? That is not the issue. They charge for a base package (cheaper price than PMDG) and then are charging for paints which have taken an artist a considerable amount of time to do. Should they not pay said artist for his time and effort? Its how they are doing business and have been for the past 5 years.IMHO they should charge more for the base package, but include a limited choice (or all) of the repaints for free. Maybe that would stop your complaining.....but then again, probably not.

Can somebody kill this thread ?It's been argued to death, the various positions explained, and now another lengthy, pointless argument is wasting bandwidth.Maybe there needs to be another forum for "Complaints About Payware"

Well at least with this thread, PSS cannot complain about the lack of public exposure, good or bad.I am a PSS customer, I like their stuff but to be honest I get frustrated whenever I buy something and the merchant looks at me with a smile and says : Oh by the way, if you want a complete product you also have to buy this, and that too... Make it less painful for the customer... It's all about customer service. People complain and people are ok. You will always have both. You must be prepared to deal with the two sides.

"...they don't own the copyright."Wrong. They do own the copyright in their texture files, and in all files they created. Whether or not they have a right to use the logo and livery is a separate matter, involving trademark and registered design laws as well.It's an infringement of copyright in most jurisdiction to make an adaptation of a copyrighted work.The only practical way that an existing aircraft can be repainted is by adapting the existing texture files, and so infringing copyright. How else can you do it unless you know how the taxture is mapped to the model? A paint kit makes this easier but copyright owner can impose whatever conditions it likes on use of the paint kit - provided they are known before purchase.It all comes back to the often reiterated point "if you don't like it don't buy it".

>Makes you kinda stop and think doesnt it??? :-hmmmYes, it makes me stop to wonder, "Can't these people read?"Why are you folks continuing to flog a dead horse?The intial post's objection was taken under consideration, PSS revised their policy accordingly, and yet that isn't enough somehow? Sheesh!

No I would not. I did buy the (overpiced) PMDG 744. I gladly paid for LDS, DF727 and many other aircraft. I could choose the easy solution - buy the basic packages for a reasonable (not cheap!) price if you buy two or three base packs and buy a livery or two.But it's the limiting of freeware repainters freedom that makes me furious.Yes, I do belive they have nerve telling people what to paint and what not to paint. They may charge for their repaints. They should not limit repainting options for others.PMDG did not come up with the idea of freeware repaints for a payware product (I guess you haven't been around long, or else you'd remember better days for this hobby, before everybody wanted to make MORE MONEY). This concept has always been there. Actually, the first payware company to charge for repaints was PSS with their original 747 and 777 for FS2000.You fail to see we shoot in our own feet?! If we gladly accept this, and make this a best seller, we just give legitimacy to these policies. Take a look at Captainsim's price for the C130. It's totally illogical, and is simply a result of the preceeding PMDG success.http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

Hello,I started the post, and I can tell you, PSS changed their policy in regards to repaints. That

LOL,I have been around long enough! (since FS 5.1) Just not buying payware.Bottom line PSS own the base textures - they can tell people quite legally what they can and cannot do with those textures.I have also been around long enough to know that the PSS business model has been the same for the past 5 years and seeing as the actual model / panel is cheaper than most, then I don't see the problem. Pick the airines to buy from PSS and then you can still repaint any other 'missing' airlines that you want. PSS have no problem with this using the textures that they own. They will even let you upload the repaints to their website!PSS is not greedy, it's just a different way of doing business.And at the end of the day, YOU can repaint anything you want and use it for yourself, you just can't upload it to AVSIM. Many times we see freeware developers stipulating where items can and cannot be upoladed to and what you can and can't modify. Where is the difference here? The difference is you want freedom to do whatever you like with textures that don't belong to you. That's PSS's rules and seeing as the files and textures belong to them then that's their perogative. It's no more unfair than freeware developers saying 'Available on AVSIM only'

Anyway, they cannot prevent anyone from creating his own base textures. No one has to use their paint kit.I agree with you that they have a right to charge for their repaints.But I don't have to like it, I don't have to buy it, and I have my right to say it outloud on every possible FS forum...Cheers!http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

Indeed, if you don't like it you don't have to buy it.But you also don't have to go around and demand that PSS be banned from employing a very successful business model that many people do like just because you don't like it.Personally I prefer to not pay for textures I don't want. PMDG (and many others) don't give me that choice, PSS does.And they don't restrict you in creating any texture. All they say is that you can't create textures that are in competition with their own, a perfectly reasonable assumption.Sure you can create your own base textures, but if you do do NOT use ANY existing PSS texture as a template. Don't start with say AF because it's almost white anyway and work from there as you'll be using their artwork still.Start with a blank white square and work from there without ever looking at the official textures at all.Let's see how long it takes you to create something completely from scratch.

Nothing wrong with this thread IMNSHO. It's no different than many other drawn-out threads. I have the much same problem with the CS C130 threads. But I find it's not much work to just skip them and move on to something else. Doug

>> Why do PSS need to pay royalties? I dont know, what makes it right for them to paint a livery with copywrited artwork by a RW airline, and not pay them a dime for the profit they make off their (the airline) copywrited artwork.And on top of that, they dont hold the copywrite to the logo's for El Al, or COA, what ever the airline in question may be, so untill the airline that holds the copywrite tells me i cant paint and upload their copywrited work, i see no reason to do different untill told otherwise by that airline that DOES own the copywrite... Thats the airlines position and its their call, not the development group's.And with all this crap about pss just dropping the entire deal and pulling their 777 before it hits the sites, and to drop from the development, thats just ignorant to say. They have the product done, and its ready for release, why change their mine and cease operation of selling addons for fs?

They might own the repaint temps., but they dont own the airline livery. Its allready owned by that airline, and its their property. How can pss tell you what you can and cannot with textures and logos they dont own? They dont own El Al or Continental's logos and copywrites, so why abide by their "rule"?Like ive said, untill the rightfull owner of the texture, meaning the airline, or the law says i cant upload, i see no reason to listen. I like their new policy better, but its just the fact that they are trying to restrict what freeware painters can and cannot do with their artwork...What ive really enjoyed about this post, is that it has helped me get closer to my 1000 posts.. Almost there! :-hah

I think its kept going because freeware artists want to do what they want with their own time well spent on their artwork...

They have copyright on the texture files and all the other files.So tell me - how you would repaint one of their aircraft without starting with one of their existing texture files?If you use their paint kit then you have to abide by their conditions of use.