>To those who are complaining that PSS is charging for>repaints, you must keep in mind that these are repaints for>their model, their flight dynamics, their visual model,>hundreds if not thousands of hours put into it by their team,>and they choose to charge for repaint packages, or each, I>havent checked yet, but they are choosing to charge for>repaints regardless.>>>If you have a problem buying something then you DON

I think this is why this message board is called a forum; freedom of speech (within the boundaries set by avsim) to discuss issues that affect the community in some tangible way. Pro or Con is not the issue, we will be one or the other...naturally.

Hi,You just don't get it, and by now, you NEVER WILL. This has NOTHING to do with PSS charging for repaints. It has to do with the fact that PSS tried to tell the ENTIRE Flightsim community they could not paint a repaint that they are offering on their website for MONEY. They DON'T have ANY right to tell the ENTIRE flight sim community that they are not allowed to do anything in regards to repaints, since they don't own the copyright.

thats where i stand...So what, they charge for THEIR artwork... thats fine and dandy... but how can they prevent us creating our own artwork and uploading it to public sites for freedownload... How can they tell you what to do with YOUR artwork...I just dont see how... I think its more of a "because i said so" ordeal... Untill they can prove to me that the law prevents me from doing so, i dont see why we cant.. And if it comes down to it, create your repaint, then upload it to a site such as "www.yousendit.com" and give out the links on request... Like i said, what they do with their own liverys is fine and dandy, but why should they have the monopoly over what we do with our own time well spent, artwork... they cant... if i upload a COA paint here to avsim, and they see it, what are they going to do about it?Think about the after effect of going against their so called "rule" Maybe they will send me a dirt letter... i couldnt give a ####... But i highly doubt they could take legal action against me, with the fact that all i did, was create some textures for their aircraft... maybe its "their" aircraft, but its "my" artwork and i should be free to do what i want with it, resentless of what they say. And if they were to take some sort of legal action, i dont know where it would go. I personally think a judge would laugh and say "get out." And if they did decide to make a threat to take such an action, i believe we would be just as entitled to write the airlines, asking about their stance on the situation. They say they have "permission" to paint an airline's livery... How about proof of that?And also, do they have permission to sell copywrited art in which they dont own the copywrite to? If so, how about proof of that also...The way i see it, we can upload anything we create, no matter what it may apply to.. Its YOUR artwork, not THEIRS.Makes you kinda stop and think doesnt it??? :-hmmm

I have no intention of buying the 777 (nothing to do with PSS) but it's nice to see someone take them on with regard to that "rule". Nice work Mike. Thanks.Doug

>Hi,>>You just don't get it, and by now, you NEVER WILL. This has>NOTHING to do with PSS charging for repaints. It has to do>with the fact that PSS tried to tell the ENTIRE Flightsim>community they could not paint a repaint that they are>offering on their website for MONEY. They DON'T have ANY right>to tell the ENTIRE flight sim community that they are not>allowed to do anything in regards to repaints, since they>don't own the copyright.Mike Im not trying to argue with you but I dont think you are getting what I am trying to say. This is in reference to THEIR AIRCRAFT RELEASE, of which you would be REPAINTING. They say what you can and cant repaint on THEIR Aircraft. They are not telling you you cannot repaint an American Airlines repaint on a MelJet 777 because they have the PSS 777, they are saying you cant upload or use a repaint that is within their repaints for their aircraft.If I were PSS I would just pull the release and forget the FS community because too many are ungreatful.

>> If I were PSS I would just pull the release and forget the FS community because too many are ungreatful. I think its the fact that they tell you what you can and cannot do with your artwork, on the pss...yes its their model, but i bought it though didnt i?and next to that, i created my own artwork, and i spent my own time on it, i should be able to do what i want with it.. how can they stop you?If i uploaded a coa paint, i would violate their "rules" but not any "laws." So i just dont see how they can tell you what you can do with your own personally artwork, regaurdless of what it might apply to.Before they say what i can and cannot do, i want them to back it up with proof that what i did, would violate any law(s).

However... did you use their paintkit to create it? Who owns the copyright on the paintkit?Ian P.

EDIT:Never mind not worth it.Want it buy it. Dont like their terms dont buy it

Who said i had to use thiers? How can they prove i used theirs. Im shure some one who is determined enough, could make their own.. it would just take time...And with the fact that its "their" paintkit... Your on microsoft's version of windows, does this give them the right to tell you what you can and cant do with windows. How would it feel if bill gates called you in 5 minutes saying " you cant use windows for anything for than browsing the internet. " IMO, its the same situation, just different concerns.They may be the author of the paintkit, but how does that limit you from doing what you want?If thats the situation, a paint kit shouldnt be made avalible...

never said i didnt like it...but as far as i care, i can repaint what i want, and put it where i want, untill the law says otherwise... I mean, common, its my artwork isnt it?

Back to the point of selling the liveries seperate. I see there are actually 2 different issues going on now.If you look at their model from a purely scientific standpoint it is actually more beneficial to the customer and them, because I'm guessing about 99.99 percent of you will only fly your favorite livery (here come the special cases--don't bother), so in fact the price of 1 plane with your favoite 1-3 liveries is actually alot cheaper than a comparable airplane which costs alot more.That's just my opinion from a fairly hard core user myself.On the issues of repaints and provided liveries, I'm not really sure what the right answer should be because I'm sure they don't want to shoot themsleves in the foot either. My guess is the provided repaints shouldn't need to be done given the quality level of their painter which I feel is pretty good anyways.The issues of agreements with every airline, I would highly doubt it if they did. Most of this would be considered fair use if they were given away free. We have several agreements with airlines oursleves and will actually probably sell one of our products in their gift shop, but it would be nearly impossible to achieve every single airline.Now, If I know Norm, and judging from my conversations with him in the past and present, I'm certain they will do the right thing and make any adjustments needed. I've also seen an unprecedented amount of patience they've shown in these forums as well as accomidations on this project. We'd be so lucky to do the same on our 120 or 228 projects. I probably would have burned these/our forums along time ago, from the responses I've seen so far...rofl.I'm looking forward to this release and can't wait to get the trip7 in the air, and I'm sure all of you guys and gals will have tons of fun with the plane. :-) Correct any spelling errors you may find...lol--just got home.

Well put jeff...Your point that it does cost much less than most payware airliners, is correct. The PMDG rakes it in a 55$ and hte 737 series still gets 40$ if im not mistaken...I dont mind buying an aircraft that is 25$ and get the options and details that i would find in the PMDG airliners, and then paying a few bucks more for a repaint. And your right, most people will only fly their favorite airline, i know i would. If i bought the 777-200, which basicly is all i would need knowing the fact that thats all Continental flys, not to mention its the most widely use series of the tripp. 7, i would only need 1 paint to keep me happy... and thats continental...What i really dont agree with is that they tell you that you can paint what you want, but it just cant be uploaded except to them, and on top of that, if you painted a livery that allready exists and is up for purchase from pss, it will be rejected...Your right, buying the plane and getting the basic livery you will fly, which is your favorite airline, is much cheaper than the pmdg series that allows you to paint what you want, and to download liverys for free, but like i said, its just the fact that they tell you that you cant upload your artwork where you want because it applies to their product... But like ive said, untill the law says i cant upload my art where i want, i see no need to abide by their so-called "rule".I guess in the end, its a split down the middle. I still think that policy could be a little further revised, as i know not everyone agree's with it...I think you put it in perspective for alot of people, as i now have a new point of view, but i still stand for my original belief, and that is that this whole ordeal, is just bull s.hit... :-lol

Chase,I apprecitate your comments as I'm sure Norm and crew does also, but sometimes it's kind of hard to agree with someone if they feel that they are being yelled at (not sure of this is the case here).In either case, I guess you charge 55 bucks or whatever for the full deal or you break it up. It all depends on the people buying which works best for them.In any case, some adjustments may need to be made, I can't speak for them on that, but I'm sure it will all come out good in the end.I think you can see though, the pickle they might be in. I wouldn't want to shoot myself in the foot, if you get my drift.I'd give them a chance and see what happens before getting to out of whack just yet.Thanks for the post. Take care.

I'm thinking about producing a new television show, titled...Desperate Liveries[/font size]:-lolCheers,OneTinsoldier