The purpose of the approval is more to make sure no free repaints compete with what they sell. They get a say on what repaint is to be distributed although YOU created them. If you creat something of good quality that they don't have, then it's going to be on their website as a free download only to make their products even more desirable. What a get-it-all-the-ways good business plan! So that paint kit is an invitation for your free labor in support of their business...and of course at the same time, a good tool for you to make something for your own use.Jason

Thats where i stand. If you could repaint what ever livery on the pss that you want and upload it to where you want, i think it would be different...

>I dont think it was removed because of this thred, I think it>was removed because it was misinterpreted, I'm pretty sure>they meant you couldnt repaint a livery they already offerd>AND upload it to somewhere else. I dont think they ever meant>you couldnt paint it at all.After the comments made, PSS then revised their repaint policy. Before this, you were required to purchase any repaint from them, unless you did it your self. So yes, this thread and support from fellow flight simmers did help, alot. I think that if this would of never come up, we would still be paying for the liverys.>However, I still dissagree with the policy, release a paintkit>and encourge the community to build upon it, allow them to>upload to avsim, if the paint is poorly done someone else will>do it better and we the community will have the option to get>whatever paint we want in whatever quality we want.......for>free. I think that will make the addon live longer.Now this, i do agree. Your standpoint on repainting, is exactly where im at... :):-wave

No one cares about the price... You tell me that if they just made one, only one repaint, the roll out colors, and then allowed the fs community to paint it as they please and post it where they please, that would drive the cost up another 90% to put it #### near the price of the PMDG?I really dont know where that theory came from, and dont care. All i have to say about it, is that its irrelevant. How does the price of their base model reflect on whether or not you get to paint the model how you want? It doesnt...So, what your telling me is that if only 1 paint was released, and the community was free to paint and post their art as they pleased, it would drive the price up to about 50$ USD? Where did you get that idea from? All that would do is give the community the chance to paint the model and provide their artwork for the community.PS: orgen, do you agree with me on this? If we were all allowed to paint it as we please for other's enjoyment, it would drive it up some 10 or 15$, ATLEAST, in the base model price? His theory on that, just doesnt make since... Oh well, some get the point, and some blind to the truth, dont... :)

I totally agree with you on this. But I belive PSS's business model is based ont he fact that people buy more than one base model and/or a repaint or two at least. That's the reason the price of one base pack is reasonable. Making it possible for the community to paint whatever we like, will cause competition for their payware repaints.But the work put into the software vs the price tag is a non issue.There's no doubt that no Addon aircraft requires as much work as a PC game that costs about 40$. Regular PC games involve voice acting, motion capture, serious art (not just repainting a dozen textures), AI programming etc. Add to that packaging, printing the CDs and shipping to varoius stores plus the whole marketing chain. You still get it at 40$. So amount of work put into any FS addon is not a justification for the price (Yes, Captainsim and PMDG 744 are overpriced, but at least they allow us the 'freedom of repaint').What justifies the prices (and you must agree with me that they are on the rise) is the demand, and the fact that it would seem that we are willing to pay more and more.I feel that we, the community, as consumers, should signal the developers that these prices (or in this case, this repaint policy) is unacceptable by not buying these products. Our problem is that we are addicts, and we (as a community) behave like ones. We are willing to pay the price (whatever price) even before the proucts are out.As for the PSS 777, if what previously said is true, and the repaint policy has changed, I will gladly look into buying this product once it's out and I see that repaints I like are out.http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png

Your right, I dont see the point in selling addons such as the 767, 737, 747, etc, just a few, at the 40 or 50$s they go for. I recently saw on PMDG's website that they donated 16,000$ to the hurricane fund. Im not saying that the money went to a bad place, as i 100% support that, but ####, business must be good! I often wonder what products like the 747, 767, c130, or any other aircraft in very high demand, brings into the developers bank in the first month. I never have been able to make a correct guess, but i would say that is they can sell 20 planes at 1000$, and i dont know, lets say 8000 people have purchased that plane, at 50$USD, or even PSS's 26$USD, thats a fairly good chunk of change. Just in the first 2 months, i guess they can bring in well over 10 or 15k... Now tell me, how can any one hurt for money when they are bringing that in? Yes, there are expenses, and no, i dont want to get into it with others about the "expenses," but the profit they make is a fairly nice group of digits. If you allready making a fairly nice profit, why force your customers to buy more from you if they would like to fly their virtual plane, in a airlines livery. And then this talk that if they were to allow the community to repaint and upload as they wish, that it would drive up the prices is just total bs. These developers have steady jobs, and then develope on the side. So that there tells me that they develope for the enjoyment of of the hobby. Think about the time and dedication they put into their product, now yes, they do deserve money for it. But when they sell you their product, you shouldnt be forced to save the money and fly rollout colors, or fly for your airline, and have to pay for that to. When i think about that, its pointless. By not allowing freeware artists to paint their airline and upload their work for the public, and by forcing you to buy that livery from the developer, i just turn my head. I find it aggrivating that you can only fly that airline-in-question, if you pay them for that to. There is no reason that freeware artists shouldnt be allowed to paint and upload their work as they please. PSS still gets their profit from the base model. In the end, all i can think of is that they are worried about taking a hit on their total profit, that is generated from their product that they develope for fun, on their side time.Its just aggrivating to me, that if you want to fly for an airline, you must pay for that also because they wont allow freeware artists to create liverys for the public, at free of cost. Yes, they would take a hit because most people would choose free over pay, but they still generate a fairly nice group of digits from the base packages itself.In the end, it just comes down to screwing you for every cent they can. When i think about it, payware prices are just to high. 50$ addons could be reduced to 30 or 35, and still, generate a pretty nice group of numbers. I mean common, dont they just do this on the side for enjoyment anyways? :-hmmmthis whole issue just aggrivates me because they take your right away to create free liverys, and some people just cant understand our feelings on the issue. At this point, this whole ordeal is just pointless, and i doubt i respond to many more, if any posts. Just seems like a waste of time at this point..O well... For you customers of the 777, i hope you enjoy the product. :) For those of you that havent because of the payware policy, and dont mind waiting a little while, FeelThere is currently developing a 777 also, and they do, allow you to paint it and upload your livery.... :)Not trying to fire any one up due to a miscommunication issue. If you could hear my tone of voice, you would understand im not ######, just aggrivated with the issue... Guess ill just wait for the FT version unless pss will further revise that policy... O well, take it easy fella's! :-wave

If I create something, I'll give it away if I want to.Eric

Microsoft only uses ficticious airlines for its stock aircraft and AI.Maybe we should ask ourselves why?

>at 1000$, and i dont know, lets say 8000 people have purchased>that plane, at 50$USD, or even PSS's 26$USD, thats a fairlyLOL! You do have a grandiose imagination, I'll grant you that!Any developer would be thrilled to sell more than 2,000 copies of any release...Any more than that, they'd probably have a stroke... ;)

I don't care if it's legal or not, charging for repaints is petty. If they don't want to do the work as a bonus for customers - sell it with one factory paint and let the many great repainters in the freeware community take over from there.

I've just completed my BA repaint and have been happily flying it around the UK, those who can will.. ;)

http://www.serialkilla.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/midy.jpgAMD 3000+ | 6800XT | 1GB GeiL |

Donny AKA ShalomarFly 2 ROCKS!!!Interesting thread, reffering to the copyright issue. Not all sims have aircraft named after real world planes, the FLY II Peregrine looks a LOT like a Hawker... Even if the airlines and manufacturers demand payment of royalties, what is to stop a shell or addon manufacturer from releasing a Boring 666 and -joila- a freeware file transforms it into an American Airlines Boeing 777- for those it matters to.And speaking of restricting things you don't own, ever notice only one sim is called what many are (and have been before you-know-who-inc-existed?) - namely, Flight Simulators? Goodyear may just as well lock up the word "Tire" and make Firestone and everybody else dream up names like "Circular Trasnsportation Facilitator".Best Regards, Donny:-wave

lol, so most developers dont sell more than 2000 copies?figured with so much attention, they could sell 2000 easily.. :)

>I don't care if it's legal or not, charging for repaints is>petty. If they don't want to do the work as a bonus for>customers - sell it with one factory paint and let the many>great repainters in the freeware community take over from>there.So, the artist who spends hours and hours creating professional, spectacular liveries shouldn't be compensated for his/her time?

No, when what he does can easily be done by regular people, and it is also the common behaviour in this market that these things are done.What PSS are telling us is "ok, you spoiled brats. Up until now you had your way with repaints. No more. From now on you buy them from us, and we forbid you to do - British airways, Lufthansa, etc. etc.".http://online.vatsimindicators.net/825051/142.png