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RichieFly

Payware AC vs Included AC in X-Plane

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(This may have been covered before and might be a dumb question, so please bare with me.)

 

Are the payware aircraft available for x-plane better than the included aircraft you get with x-plane? Are they miles better as in the payware aircraft available for FSX?

 

For example, A2A's C-172 vs the included FS C-172. The difference is what I would call miles apart. Likewise, the B-55 in FS vs the Milviz B-55. All classes: tubeliners to a lowly Cub.

 

I've flown the included X-plane aircraft and I find them pretty meh. I'm not asking simply on looks, although that's important to me, but also general FPS performance and flight fidelity.

 

There's a lot of enthusiasm for X-plane here at avsim, so this should be the place to ask.

 

Right now, I'm strictly a P3d kinda guy. But I'm always looking for new ways to scratch my itch.

 

Thanks

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It's just like default FSX or P3D aircraft I guess, they're good but for sure payware addons may be better compared to default ones but this depend on the developer as some may apply more effort into than others, if you want to have an idea try to search for specific addon on youtube.

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I'll let others answer for the stuck wing models, but I can say that the add-on helicopter models are much better than the default Sikorsky S-76 in XP11 beta.

 

The default S-76 looks pretty good in the external model, but lacks some of the special features of payware like opening doors, ground support, searchlight, sling loads, etc. It's very basic once you're inside the cockpit. Very few switches do anything, unlike the deeper systems modeling in the free Bell 429 or the payware models -- ND BK-117, X-Trident Bell 412, and Dreamfoil Bell 407 (to list my favorite models). Just a taste of what's out there past the default S-76.

 

I don't know if you're interested in them or not, but helicopters are one of X-Plane's strong points, with much better support in X-Plane's internal flight modeling than FSX/P3D. We have many good models to choose from, although the fleet is still being expanded and there are still many gaping holes (we could use a good deep-modeled Chinook!). 

 

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I have personally found the default C172SP a very capable aircraft that functions rather well and similar to payware versions.  When it comes to the B737 though, I'm sure you'll get a resounding response that payware B737's function better.  There's no harm in taking any of the default aircraft for a spin, since their included.

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The EADT 737-800 is quite good and it is free. It just costs 20 euros if you want to purchase the FMC.

 

If you look at the FlightFactor 757 v2/ and 767 or IXEG 737 then you are looking at something of great quality and half the cost of PMDG P3D products.

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I actually find most of the default aircraft in X-Plane tend to be pretty awful. They did significantly improve some of them for XP11 (particularly the C172) but they are still far from perfect. A lot of the payware for X-Plane is also of fairly low quality compared to most of the offerings for P3D/FSX, so you should do research on any individual aircraft you are considering purchasing.

 

Most of the flying I do in X-Plane is with tubeliners so that is all I can really give advice on. As the poster above said, EADT's 737NG is actually very good especially considering that it is free, although it is still leagues away from something like the NGX.

 

From my experience, the best payware airliners for X-Plane would be the FlightFactor 757/767 and IXEG 737 Classic (which rivals PMDG in terms of quality IMO). The Rotate MD80 is also a better offering than any of the MD80s I've seen for P3D/FSX. PMDG's DC-6 is also very good if you like older airliners. All of these have just about all the system depth and attention to detail you could want, and they tend to be as performance friendly, if not more, than the default planes. And if you have a decent set of controls, they feel FAR better to handfly than just about anything from the P3D/FSX realm.

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I would hold of the Rotate MD-80, ATS just released/ releasing one which should be much better if/ when the initial bugs are fixed.

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No offense to the other posters but this thread is quickly turning towards an "add-ons" thread, which may need/get moved, according to what Tony posted the other day.

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I hate that a subforum was added. I just want to post in 1 forum. More people will see it that way.

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I hate that a subforum was added. I just want to post in 1 forum. More people will see it that way.

I see both sides of the equation.  Tony would like to maintain some organization as well as preventing OP's from posting threads about general XP function and the thread suddenly turning into a discussion about add-ons and such.  On the other side, yeah it's nice to have a "one stop shop", but again, there are some who could use help about functionality in XP and not have to sift through post after post, seeking the right info.

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I hate that a subforum was added. I just want to post in 1 forum. More people will see it that way.

 

You also don't get as many views of a topic if it scrolls off the main page too fast. There is a limit to how many extra pages many users will want to load. For those with short attention spans, anything that scrolls off the first page is ancient history.  :smile:

 

It's a tough thing to balance. I just reset my bookmark to the index instead of this main one, so I don't forget to check the other sub-forums. 

 

I only hope this X-Plane area of Avsim doesn't metastasize into the mess of sub-forums the .org has. That whole forum could be compacted down to about a third the size by consolidating topics, and it would be easier to navigate. 

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I don't remember much from my FSX days - they were so long ago. But most of the payware in XP that I have bought I do not use. There is usually some problem with the modelling or the systems and very little support from the developers. I am not sure why this is - perhaps the market is too small for full time developers. I tend to think the developers in XP get into the field because of a love of flying and their particular passion, then find the support area a real hassle and not what they wanted. So then they drift away and the updates/fixes are slow in coming. I agree myself - I am a programmer and absolutely hate support. But I work for a company that hire support people for my software, not something that many XP developers can do. Programmers are not the type of people that generally want to do support.

 

But it is not all negative - I am guessing it is much the same in the FSX world. There are some really good aircraft in XP, the IXEG 737 for example. That is one team that does seem to want to support their product.

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Well, it's just down to individual developers when it comes to support, but I've had a positive experience overall. Maybe we're just buying different payware? I have aircraft from the following devs where I haven't had any trouble with the plane models, or support when I needed it:

 

DDen (Goose package)

X-Trident (Bell 412)

Carenado (Bonanza F33, Cessna C208, Pilatus PC-12)

LES (DC-3)

X-Aviation (MU-2)

Dreamfoil (Bell 407)

RWDesigns (DHC-6 Twin Otter)

STMA (DHC-2 Beaver, DHC-3 Otter)

HydroZ (PBY Catalina)

 

Granted, in some of these cases I've had no interaction because the planes worked fine out of the box. In other cases, I've had good interaction with the devs when bringing up an issue, or asking for clarification. Maybe I've just been lucky in not having a bad experience so far, but for a small niche market run mainly by solo developers, I'd say the track record is pretty good in my case. 

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It's the same as FSX/P3D.  Stock planes are simple and basic examples of what is possible, good enough, but no where near what is possible.  XP11's C172 is actually quite nice, but still no where near an A2A for a simple comparison.

 

But, the good news is there are absolutely FANTASTIC payware XP aircraft.  For small GA stuff, check out:

 

https://www.simcoders.com/

 

They offer "REP" addons to Carenado aircraft, making them very similar to A2A Accusim aircraft.  Great product, I love what these guys add.  Best of both worlds, all of Carenado beauty, yet you get a realism pack that adds/improves all the systems.

 

Additionally, it's about to be updated to v2 after XP11 is finalized, but I simply cannot say enough good things about the Leading Edge Simulations Saab 340A.  They nailed it.  It's the single best simulation experience I've had on any platform, love it.

 

http://www.x-aviation.com/catalog/product_info.php/take-command-saab-340a-p-100

 

If you like heavier stuff, check out the FlightFactor 757 v2 or 767.  I haven't tried the 767 yet, but I am enjoying the 757 v2 as much as I've ever enjoyed the PMDG 737 or 777.  Great stuff as well.

 

So, in a simple answer, X-Plane 10/11 has tons more to offer in a proper payware aircraft than the stock planes.  It's almost like a different sim depending on the plane.

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True.  Also the cost of addons is generally less in XP than P3D/FSX.  But I also feel you don't get the fidelity out of the high end XP addons vs P3D.  For instance the best XP tube liner (not sure what it is, maybe the B757 v2 or the IXEG B737) isn't quite as complicated/detailed as PMDG's B777, but it's still really really good.  The best GA plane in XP - I'm not really sure what it is either, maybe the Airfoillabs C172 or maybe a Carenado plane with REP....  isn't quite as nice as A2A's Comanche etc.  It's close but maybe not as good.  (just my opinion).

 

Recently though, the payware quality for XP10/11 has really started to increase.  Frankly some of the payware for XP10 when I got in a few years ago was junk I thought...  I mean it looked like stuff we had for FS2000.  But now I think the quality from XP devs is surpassing FSX/P3D (with maybe PMDG as the exception).

 

I'm most excited for the DDENN Global Jet - can't have it soon enough.  Also the LES Citation will be something I'll pick up for XP11 if I ever get a new PC.  Aerobask is also doing a Eclipse 550 reboot of their freeware offering.  Can you tell I'm a GA fan hehe?  Tubes....  meh - I should get one one of these days - probably the IXEG.

 

Anyway I rambled on there... the key is, to really enjoy a sim you should invest in a few payware aircraft!  

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What airfoillabs really captured is yoke responses of real 172. A2A fell short of my expectations in this respect. I flown all GA airplanes A2A released up today  in real life, and struggled bit to get correct response from flight controls using different tweaks. Too bad airfoillabs dropped XP11 beta compatibility. I was stupid enough to delete their version that worked :)

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True.  Also the cost of addons is generally less in XP than P3D/FSX.  But I also feel you don't get the fidelity out of the high end XP addons vs P3D.  For instance the best XP tube liner (not sure what it is, maybe the B757 v2 or the IXEG B737) isn't quite as complicated/detailed as PMDG's B777, but it's still really really good.  The best GA plane in XP - I'm not really sure what it is either, maybe the Airfoillabs C172 or maybe a Carenado plane with REP....  isn't quite as nice as A2A's Comanche etc.  It's close but maybe not as good.  (just my opinion).

 

I think we're still down to flying preferences. Maybe I'm in a minority here in not caring about Aribus jets or Cessna 172's because that's not my thing. But If you're a fan of vintage aircraft or bush planes, then find me a model in FSX/P3D that's better than the LES DC-3, RWDesigns Twin Otter, X-Aviation MU-2, or HydroZ PBY Catalina. Or while we're at it, the PMDG DC-6... shades of things to come.

 

And I didn't even mention helicopters, this time.  :wink:

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I think the AC in X-Plane 11 are pretty nice, especially the C172 (except the viewpoint is as if the pilot has removed the seat and is sitting on the floor of the aircraft, but this can be easily fixed). But they are a bit basic and "bland" compared to 3rd party addons.

 

Right now with XP11, add-on aircraft are a bit hit and miss. Some work, some don't work at all, some "kind of" work. I would hold off buying addons until the situation has been cleared up somewhat.

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IMHO X-Plane payware is just like FSX/P3D payware - lightyears ahead of the default aircraft - in most cases at least.  I have bought some complete lemons for X-Plane though, with textures that look like they're from X-Plane 5.     Just apply a bit of "buyer beware" and check reviews / screenshots / you tube.  Plenty of great options out there.

 

My favourites are the IXEG 737, LES Saab 340, EMB 110 (can't remember who it's by but it's on the ORG), and yes, the Carenado B1900 is divine - streets ahead of the FSX version.   I love the Alabeo DA-42 in X-Plane too.  It has more systems modelled than the FSX version, including the buttons for the engine run-up check, which work.

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IMHO X-Plane payware is just like FSX/P3D payware - lightyears ahead of the default aircraft - in most cases at least.  I have bought some complete lemons for X-Plane though, with textures that look like they're from X-Plane 5.     Just apply a bit of "buyer beware" and check reviews / screenshots / you tube.  Plenty of great options out there.

 

My favourites are the IXEG 737, LES Saab 340, EMB 110 (can't remember who it's by but it's on the ORG), and yes, the Carenado B1900 is divine - streets ahead of the FSX version.   I love the Alabeo DA-42 in X-Plane too.  It has more systems modelled than the FSX version, including the buttons for the engine run-up check, which work.

Bill, you mentioned Carenado, do all of their aircraft run well in XP11?  Last I tried with the CT208, I had issues with buttons not appearing and functioning.  I checked their website for updates and such, but no joy.  Could they be waiting for the final release of XP11?

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I personally think that XP11's default Cessna 172 flies great, and it's a terrific looking model, easily on par with and possibly better than third-party aircraft from developers like Carenado.  Not having any real-world flying experience, it flies the way I think a plane should fly, but maybe I'd feel different if I was a pilot.

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The vast majority of payware outperforms the defaults in XP11 by a wide margin.  Usually you'll find the price curve mimics the quality curve.  Here's my list of payware mostly purchased in XP10.  A couple are holdovers from XP9, but surprisingly are still functional in XP11.

 

IXEG B-737 (best of the best in XP10/11, truly a great piece of work by those guys)

JRollon CRJ-200 (my first and very nice aircraft.  Great exterior, bad sounds, 85% systems sim)

FF B-777 (98% system sim, nice exterior, wing flapping is comical, 98% FMS)

FlyJSim B727 (all around great model)

B787 (Don't waste your money, akin to XP8 default)

DDenn Challenger 300 (excellent model and great support, I too can't wait for GLEX)

ND BK-117 (Superb helicopter)

Carenado F33A (excellent model, gear doors hang in XP11 for now, should be patched when out of Beta)

Carenado BE-58 (again excellent, way better than default BE-58)

Carenado C-172 (suprisingly not up to Carenado quality, default 172 way better)

F-16 (Marginal flight model)

T-38 (Slightly better than F-16, but still not that good)

DC-3 (Very nice aircraft and nice flight modeling)

Q-400 (FlyJsims first effort and not as good as his B727, some really like it though, I rarely fly this one)

ERJ-170 (low budget modeling but flies OK, don't fly this much)

 

The only default that is worth starting up IMHO is the C-172.  Flies nice and looks even better.

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I think we're still down to flying preferences. Maybe I'm in a minority here in not caring about Aribus jets or Cessna 172's because that's not my thing. But If you're a fan of vintage aircraft or bush planes, then find me a model in FSX/P3D that's better than the LES DC-3, RWDesigns Twin Otter, X-Aviation MU-2, or HydroZ PBY Catalina. Or while we're at it, the PMDG DC-6... shades of things to come.

And I didn't even mention helicopters, this time

 

Flying preferences is the thing, for sure. For example, if you were to look at military jets (and props, for that matter), you don't have anywhere close to the selection available in X-Plane that you do in FSX or P3D. There's simply nothing in X-Plane that can match the overall fidelity of the VRS Superbug, the Milviz F100 or F4's, the Aerosoft F-14's or EE Lightnings, etc.

 

Generally I find that it's not so much that there isn't quality payware available for X-Plane, it's that the developer base is smaller (and newer, in many cases) and so hasn't had the time to crank out a large library yet.

 

But to answer the OP's topic, yes, just like FSX, a lot, but not all, of the payware available for X-Plane is quite a bit farther ahead than the default included aircraft.

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Bill, you mentioned Carenado, do all of their aircraft run well in XP11?  Last I tried with the CT208, I had issues with buttons not appearing and functioning.  I checked their website for updates and such, but no joy.  Could they be waiting for the final release of XP11?

 

Oh I couldn't say yet Jim.  XP11 purchased but not yet installed!  I have XP10 via Steam, and recently had some problems with vsync on my desktop (in general, not XP related).  So I installed my XP10 copy from Steam to test that, before buying XP11.   Luckily there were no issues, so I bought XP11 but have not yet gotten around to installing it yet.   Very excited to though.

 

Totally agree about the eco system.  It's just amazing.  Within 2 hours of installing XP10 again, I had GB Pro, W2XP Europe, 6 top notch airports all installed - all FREE!

 

I'm having a blast flying the Alabeo DA-42 around the UK.  Next up I'm going to download Spain UHD again (Free, amazing) and the Canaries airports on the ORG, and fly the B1900 over that way.

 

Save a fortune on XP, and the immersion is just unbeatable.

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