captain420

Best way to practice Kai Tak IGS 13 landing in PMDG 747/777?

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I've seen a lot of videos on YouTube of people doing this famous landing and I would love to give it a try. With that being said, what is the best way to set up the flight plan in order to practice this landing?

Would I start my flight from VHHH? I would like to the quickest and easiest method so that I can continuously load up the plane to practice this. If anyone know what routes to enter into the CDU, I would appreciate it.

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For quick and easy, I usually start from VHHH runway 7 left. Once you take off, it's a slight right turn to put you on the IGS. I usually just put the approach into the IGS runway 13, so your first waypoint would take you straight there.

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Hi Folks,

Don't forget the approach plate:

Kai+Tek+IGS21223945663.jpg

Regards,

Scott

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I would like to follow this procedure as realistic as I can... so I guess I can program my CDU to take off 07R from VHHH to PORPA GOLF and then follow that chart that Scott posted to the 1st point in the approach which is CH using maybe cost index of 25 and FL060 to start?

 

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That approach needs to start at CH at  at 8000AGL, no matter how far out you come into that CH and then use that approach plate

In your nav data, you need to plug those navaids since the the recent Nav data does not have those old outdated navaids required to execute that approach.

 

Check here, for how to add those navaids to your navdata.there are scripts that can automatically add those to your navdata or you could ad them manually so you understand what is being done.. there are instructions for that as well. Every time you update your nave data, you have to do this.

 

http://www.vapap.com/kai-tak-airport

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I Generally take off from Kai Tak, head straight for the TH VOR climb to 8000, then intercept the 270 inbound to the CH VOR. After that just follow the approach plate. As said above theres a few places that explain how to put the navaids into the latest navdata. You can fly this all day long with this procedure, just doing touch and goes.

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I recommend getting to SL either using Kevin's method or JRS182's method.  Then save your situation at SL, so that you can restart from there.  You can use your weather program or your flight sim program's weather settings to change the winds and visibility as often as you want.

Manny provided a link to a good site that has both an AFCAD for Kaitak (VHHX) scenery (for FSX - don't know if it will work in P3D) and a program that will install the VHHX nav information every time you update your Airac.  There is also information for manually entering the necessary data.  (The SIDSTAR information won't be overwritten but the airport information will be.)   Of course you will need to add scenery, either free or payware, to have the airport.

My own technique is to use the IGS 13 approach, which gives you localizer and glideslope until the turn.  I follow the loc/GS on autopilot until shortly before the turn.  The GS indication seems to be a good guide to your descent after you start the turn until you have visual with the runway and can see the Papi lights.

The FMC will autotune the IGS loc/gs, and set the heading to 88.  But I reset it to 136 as that is the path you will follow for a missed approach.  (Missed approach altitude is 4500 ft).

Mike

 

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5 hours ago, Mike777 said:

Then save your situation at SL, so that you can restart from there.

That might not necessarily be a good idea since at least the PMDG Boeing 747-400 has that 20-second initialization time, and I imagine the 777 also does. Being that close to the runway, it's probably better to just start from the runway at VHHH.

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25 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

That might not necessarily be a good idea since at least the PMDG Boeing 747-400 has that 20-second initialization time, and I imagine the 777 also does. Being that close to the runway, it's probably better to just start from the runway at VHHH.

Hi Kevin,

You have a good point!  My experience is more with the 777 on this approach.  I do have a saved flight w/ the 777-300 (Asia's World City livery) that's a little closer than SL.  It does tend to float up in altitude a bit, and it's a little unpredictable.  But once the countdown is done it does go back to following the VNAV path and does capture the Localizer/GS.  Probably not a good idea to be going more than 200 knots at the time the flight is saved.

One trick that works pretty well w/ the 777 is to put it in slew mode (Y) while paused, unpause, let the countdown happen, then take it out of slew mode.  I don't know how well that works with  the 747 QOTS though.

Mike

 

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41 minutes ago, Mike777 said:

One trick that works pretty well w/ the 777 is to put it in slew mode (Y) while paused, unpause, let the countdown happen, then take it out of slew mode.  I don't know how well that works with  the 747 QOTS though.

Not so good. When you take it out of slew mode, it'll actually float up a little bit, so that's going to mess the approach up a bit.

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12 hours ago, captain420 said:

I've seen a lot of videos on YouTube of people doing this famous landing and I would love to give it a try. With that being said, what is the best way to set up the flight plan in order to practice this landing?

Would I start my flight from VHHH? I would like to the quickest and easiest method so that I can continuously load up the plane to practice this. If anyone know what routes to enter into the CDU, I would appreciate it.

Aaron,

I would set up the flight by departing RWY13 at VHHX, fly the missed approach for RWY13, then fly the approach to RWY13 from the missed approach.  A little trivia I still have my DOD approach plates from when I flew in there in the military and later as a civilian. :)

blaustern

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Can't use the CDU. This approach has to essentially be hand flown (with a little A/P help). I have no idea where I got the info below... I claim no credit - all that goes to whomever wrote it. But, I think it's helpful as it's a good representation of the RW. For practice I have a situation saved just passing CH at 6000'/250 knots and start from there.

"Remove cabin staff from knee. Approaching from over the South China Sea, set your NAV1 radio to Cheung Chau VOR (CH VOR, 112.30) orTathong Point (TH VOR, 115.50) to the east of it if you can't pick up CH VOR immediately. When approaching 100 DME (miles from) CH VOR descend to FL 150 (15000 ft). When passing 30 DME CH reduce your speed to 250 knots and descend to 8000 ft. After passing CH VOR fly on heading 270 or R-270 at 6000 ft. Tune your ADF to 268 SL (SHA LO WAN) and proceed to GOLF, which is at D7 CH on the 270 CH VOR radial (7 miles west of Cheung Chau) and should show as such on your NAV1 DME readout. Your cross check is that the ADF arrow should now point due north (90° to your right). Descend to 4500 ft, turning right heading 045 to pass over the 268 SL NDB (nondirectional radio beacon). Now tune your NAV1 to intercept the Kai Tak IGS localiser (IGS/DME 111.90 KL - note also that the ILS/DME is 109.90 IHK but use the IGS). Establish your 088 course on the IGS localiser, follow the glide path and reduce to normal approach speed for landing on R13 (which varies according to your aircraft - see specific documentation with each model). Final approach is visual and is the infamous bit. Turn right 47° towards runway (which lies 135°) at the moment of intercepting MM (the audible Middle Marker alarm and panel light - big jets such as the B747 and A340 must turn 2-3 seconds before MM). If using autopilot APR mode (auto-descent on the glide slope) remember to switch off the autopilot before turning otherwise you'll suffer "Loss Of Terrain CLR", for which read that you'll modify Kowloon Tsai extensively by remaining on the IGS. Use the checkerboard to aid your visual approach - if you can't see it, either you're in Schenzen or you should go round again. If landing at night, you'll find the curved approach lights useful as well as pretty. Flare the ship for landing. Kill throttles, take the threshold at no less than 50 ft. if you don't want to give the barman in the Aero Club a haircut. If you feel a gentle bump and hear the wheels touch, feel pleased with yourself. If your screen goes AWOL and your computer makes a noise like an epileptic goat in a biscuit tin, you blew it. Take up fishing, since you're in the water anyway. "
 

 

Edited by W2DR
Editted becuase I kant spel.........

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1 hour ago, W2DR said:

Remove cabin staff from knee.

Hi Folks,

Ahh - the good ol' days...

Regards,

Scott

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4 hours ago, W2DR said:

Can't use the CDU. This approach has to essentially be hand flown (with a little A/P help). I have no idea where I got the info below... I claim no credit - all that goes to whomever wrote it. But, I think it's helpful as it's a good representation of the RW. For practice I have a situation saved just passing CH at 6000'/250 knots and start from there.

If the nav info is installed from the link that Manny gave you certainly can fly RNAV using the FMC on autopilot until you have locked onto the localizer and GS, and you can continue to descend on the GS using the autopilot until you come close to the turning point.  the ILS IHK 109.9 is for Runway 31, the reciprocal of 13 so no, it wouldn't be a good idea to use it!  The info you provided on tuning SL ADF and CH VOR gives a good basis for cross-checking the course being flown in autopilot RNAV.

Mike

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