captain420

Pilot2ATC vs Pro-ATC X

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Does anyone have experience with both of these products and can tell me which one would be better overall for use in P3D v4? I'm looking for a good ATC replacement package.

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5 hours ago, captain420 said:

Does anyone have experience with both of these products and can tell me which one would be better overall for use in P3D v4? I'm looking for a good ATC replacement package.

Have you tried PF3?

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Can't help with a comparison but I've been using ProatcX in P3Dv4 for awhile now and find it quite realistic. I have added ATC background chatter for the airports/areas along route for added immersion. It handles all aspects of your flight from startup/taxi departure and approach. Has it's faults but nothing that can't be worked around.

Highly recommend.

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43 minutes ago, JustanotherPilot said:

Can't help with a comparison but I've been using ProatcX in P3Dv4 for awhile now and find it quite realistic. I have added ATC background chatter for the airports/areas along route for added immersion. It handles all aspects of your flight from startup/taxi departure and approach. Has it's faults but nothing that can't be worked around.

Highly recommend.

Just a question, where have you downloaded the background chatter? Still failing to find a working link to upgrade my ProatcX installation .... thx in advance

 

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Pilot2ATC has a demo so it's free to try.  Proatc/X doesn't.  I sometimes hear good things about Proatc/X but I've also heard bad things.  Having put aside 2 other ATC apps after a short time, I'm reluctant to pay to see if it's any good.  Live ATC is undoubtedly the best and, generally, free if you can find them online...easier to do in Europe. 

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1 hour ago, JustanotherPilot said:

Can't help with a comparison but I've been using ProatcX in P3Dv4 for awhile now and find it quite realistic. I have added ATC background chatter for the airports/areas along route for added immersion. It handles all aspects of your flight from startup/taxi departure and approach. Has it's faults but nothing that can't be worked around.

Highly recommend.

Agree.  Have not tried Pilot2ATC though.

 

1 hour ago, JoeFackel said:

Just a question, where have you downloaded the background chatter? Still failing to find a working link to upgrade my ProatcX installation .... thx in advance

 

Ralph Zimmerman furnishes the background chatter at realatc -  http://realatc.net/.  He furnishes it for Pilot2ATC too.

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VOXATC should be working with P3Dv4 now, too. Did not try it yet, but read many good things about it.

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8 hours ago, captain420 said:

Does anyone have experience with both of these products and can tell me which one would be better overall for use in P3D v4? I'm looking for a good ATC replacement package.

I`m using PROATC/X and PF3, tried only the Pilot2ATC demo

I`d say it depends a bit what you fly and where.

Pilot2ATC doesn`t use any European phraseology, so it`s more suitable for flying outside Europe. For PROATC/X it`s just the other way round and PF3 is the best compromise regarding that.

I also found PF3 the best option for flying Airliners and small iron, it can handle both. PROATC/X should be used for Airliners only.

One thing worth to mention is the SID/STARS handling. In PF3 you can predefine them, so during your flight you get what you expect. That makes it very predictable, so no surprises you might have to handle. PROATC/X has a SID/ STARS database and chooses them accordingly, which is certainly an advantage. 

In PF3 I more have the feeling I get accompanied by ATC. PROATCX gives more a feeling of getting handled by ATC.

I have no idea what Pilot2ATC does in this regard. 

Mike

 

 

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44 minutes ago, mikealpha said:

One thing worth to mention is the SID/STARS handling. In PF3 you can predefine them, so during your flight you get what you expect. That makes it very predictable, so no surprises you might have to handle. PROATC/X has a SID/ STARS database and chooses them accordingly, which is certainly an advantage. 

 

 

 

SIDs and STARs are never random. They are rather predictable in fact. You will always get the SID or STAR attached to each end of your fpl. The chances of receiving a SID or STAR that you are not prepared for is in reality rather remote.

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Pro Atc X years ago was a fiasco, nowdays it is defintely very good IMO.

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1 hour ago, Mark II said:

Pro Atc X years ago was a fiasco, nowdays it is defintely very good IMO.

As far as I am aware it still reads out alpha charaters instead of phoenetic. And listening to canned ATC chat at Manchester when I am flying in the Far East is a bit off.

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I decided for Pilot2ATC about a year ago after years of Radar Contact use. At the time I was looking for one with speech recognition to practice for Pilotedge. The developer is actively improving it to the point I do not know how representative the demo would be. Definitely there is a learning curve, but once set to your satisfaction you only need to update it with Navigraph or Navdatapro as needed. Its flight planning tool is pretty good too. I run it from a remote computer.

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You can set up several different flight plans in the ProATC-X interface.  I personally have received changes to the STAR based on weather conditions.  ProATC-X still does not allow the co-pilot to input the commands from ATC (like altitude, speed, altimeter, etc.) for the heavies like the PMDG 747 and 777 but it does a good job for the 737's. It does a lousy job controlling AI on the ground (in fact non-existent except at departure where it places you in a hold status for arriving aircraft).  Sometimes it sends you to the wrong runway where aircraft are landing and taking off at the other end.  Sometimes.  No ATC program is perfect and never will be but ProATC-X provides some realism and immersion into the world of flight simulation.  I like the fact the co-pilot, as in real world OPS, helps the pilot in command fly the aircraft by handling things like the commo.  It continues to receive major updates annually.  I think the utility will only get better.  So far my $60 investment several years ago has gone very far (I was the first one at AVSIM to purchase this product and test it for the members here; Chock came in a day or two later to help me review and and answer questions about the product).  It has exceeded by expectations.

Best regards,

Jim

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Radar Contact has the best vectoring I have ever seen during my FS2002/FS2004/P3D tenure. If only they had a chance to add ground operations as it was planned for V5...didn't happen, unfortunately

PRO ATC is good for point-to-point flying if you know the charts well. Their vectoring need some improvement, but other than that it's my N1 choice for ATC software

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+1 on PRO-ATC I have been using for quite awhile now and just installed in p3dv4 and it works great. I used radar contact in the past so bummed a new version never came out .

Tom

 

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13 hours ago, JoeFackel said:

Just a question, where have you downloaded the background chatter? Still failing to find a working link to upgrade my ProatcX installation .... thx in advance

 

There are plenty of sites that offer background chatter files from all countries. Google helps here

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I purchased PF3 a while back and found that I had to do too much to set up a flight. Like Mikealpha says you have to setup the SID and STAR by providing starting and ending point and also altitude. It does not use navigraph. If the weather changes at your destination you are stuck with the STAR that you programmed. It got a little tiresome to be honest. I also don't like the many key commands that you have to memorize because there is not a on screen menu albeit some people don't like on screen menus.

I decided to give PRO-ATC/X a try and definitely like it better. I too downloaded Ralph Zimmerman background chat and it does helps on the immersion factor. It more or less controls or talks to AI aircrafts (PF3 does a better job at this). In the end I wished I had discovered PRO-ATC/X first. I would have saved some cash.

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I've been using Pilot2ATC (which I bought), but I only have a single monitor and I find it really difficult to use with P3D on my smallish 24: monitor.  So I'm looking for a better solution.

I also bought Pro-ATC-X, but I fly just small GA and it doesn't seem suited for them very well.

I just tried the PF3 Demo, but it doesn't seem to work with P3Dv4.  everything seems ok until i click on "connect to sim"  and then PF3 just closes, without any error messages.

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8 hours ago, Samaritano said:

I purchased PF3 a while back and found that I had to do too much to set up a flight. Like Mikealpha says you have to setup the SID and STAR by providing starting and ending point and also altitude. It does not use navigraph. If the weather changes at your destination you are stuck with the STAR that you programmed. It got a little tiresome to be honest. I also don't like the many key commands that you have to memorize because there is not a on screen menu albeit some people don't like on screen menus.

I decided to give PRO-ATC/X a try and definitely like it better. I too downloaded Ralph Zimmerman background chat and it does helps on the immersion factor. It more or less controls or talks to AI aircrafts (PF3 does a better job at this). In the end I wished I had discovered PRO-ATC/X first. I would have saved some cash.

If for example I am approaching the UK from the South East it is most likely that the STAR will be Ockam. This applies regardless of the landing runway direction or weather etc. PF3 allows you to make your own way to the landing rwy or be vectored. PF3 also allows you to choose from a drop down list of SIDs and STARs which is permanently saved so it only needs to be done once. As for setting up a flight you do very little in reality. And the next time you want to do that flight just a single button clock is all you need. Navigraph is used by simmers pretty much as a cheat. In that priority should be given to the published chart information. PF3 allows you to put altitude constraints against wypts etc and again all saved for posterity. As for key commands there are not that many to memorise in fact. If your memory is not up to then you can use PF3 displayer. You could even use a pencil and paper even though they now don't teach handwriting at school in Scandinavia.

If I am in Singapore I would naturally expect to hear ATC ocassionally talking to Singapore Airlines (I have the relevant AI). I would not expect to hear ATC handing people over to Manchester Control. Nor would I expect to hear alphanumeric characters being read out. PF3 v5 which is the current release is a very long way from v.1 and even further from PFE. It does not contain the Microsoft cheat of vectoring around mountains. Simply because that is not possible and cannot done in the real world. It allows much more flexibility than other ATC programmes and is pretty good at both VFR and IFR both in FAA and ICAO territories. Yes it does place more responsibility on the Captain but then that is as real as it gets because "that" is enshrined in international air law. So because you are encouraged to look-up the relevant charts etc., you get greater immersion and learn more. You are responsible for the flight planning not ATC. They just confirm that it complies with the regulations.

Each ATC programme has its idiosyncrasies but PF3 is the most accurate overall. It contains a miriad of other features that are user controlled. Plus lots of other stuff. For example if you are a "heavy" you will be given a no speed call after take-off. As for flightplanning there is plenty of stuff out there both free and payware that use the latest airac cycles. Having said that they can be, especially true of PFPX, quite inaccurate and you should "always" adopt the habit of checking the fpl against published material and skyvector. I have seen a number of fpls generated by PFPX  that are in effect back to front going the wrong way down an airway. And more importantly forcing an airway fpl when in reality you would fly direct and cross airways instead.

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I think, I'll hold off on getting an ATC add-on. Seems like its all over the place now. Wish some of these developers can team up or collaborate and come up with 1 good one, instead of a bunch of mediocre ones.

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4 minutes ago, captain420 said:

I think, I'll hold off on getting an ATC add-on. Seems like its all over the place now. Wish some of these developers can team up or collaborate and come up with 1 good one, instead of a bunch of mediocre ones.

Any of the available offerings are better than the default or not having any ATC at all.

They may differ and some have features that the others do not, but all of them are capable of delivering good ATC guidance, all of them are fun and add to the experience.

None of them are mediocre.

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1 hour ago, Glynn said:

.

The one ATC you "do not" want to use is the default. It is so bad it would be better to have it switched off altogether.

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17 hours ago, Jim Young said:

...  Sometimes it sends you to the wrong runway where aircraft are landing and taking off at the other end.  Sometimes. 

This is one of the most annoying drawbacks of Pro-ATC. In my observation, in many cases it happens when wind is below 5 kts. But there is a work-around. First, one has to find out what is the preferred runway for ai when no wind is present. Second, in the PRO_ATC airport data base one can define the same runway(s) to be preferred at low wind (< 5kts). It does not work 100% all the time but I found that wrong runway assignments are significanty reduced.

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4 hours ago, captain420 said:

I think, I'll hold off on getting an ATC add-on. Seems like its all over the place now. Wish some of these developers can team up or collaborate and come up with 1 good one, instead of a bunch of mediocre ones.

How many have you actually tried to make a statement like they are all mediocre? 

 

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I've tried Pilot2ATC, VoxATC and Pro-ATC, and I'm basing my judgements on what I've read or seen online reviews of.

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