It just that some people have to find something to bash DTG with , I've seen aerofly 2 on steam is that getting the same treatment, and was not XPlane 10 on steam.

PS  update XPlane 11 £54 on steam what a rip off we could all go over to the XPlane forums and chip in but I'm not as I don't care!

Ray Fry. 

12 hours ago, deetee said:

Hi Tim. Now that is the phrase that sits wrong in all this. Selling on the Steam store should be a choice, not an obligation. Same goes for pricing, it should be set by the developer. They should have the freedom to undercut their Steam price if they so wish. If you're company is selling a studysim jet on your web site at $150, why not set the Steam price at $180? There is surely nothing wrong with encouraging people to buy directly from the developer, given the cut Steam and DTG will be getting. 

Hi Dave, I'm not sure that there is a contractual obligation to sell on the Steam Store to be honest! Hopefully this example will reassure anyone who has concerns about Steam Store, which is currently holding a 70% Off Sale of FSX-SE add-ons:

The first aircraft in the list is the Wittman Tailwind by Lionheart Productions at £9.99.

It's also advertised on Lionheart's own website as follows:

$19.95 direct from Lionheart.

$19.95 from Flight1.

€14.20 from simMarket.

I can't see any reason why FSW add-on's would be exclusive to Steam, and at a premium price, when FSX-SE add-on's aren't. If a simmer doesn't already have an account with a particular retailer and can't be bothered to set one up, he'll stick with his existing retailer(s) unless there's a significant discount involved - but if a casual Steam gamer were to do the above comparison he'd buy from Steam and stick with Steam for all his future add-on purchases.

And there are a lot more Steam gamers than flightsimmers...

33 minutes ago, A32xx said:

 

And there are a lot more Steam gamers than flightsimmers...

And we need more of those gamer's to get into flight sim to help keep it alive for us and them :) I know selfish!

22 minutes ago, Learjet777 said:

And we need more of those gamer's to get into flight sim to help keep it alive for us and them :) I know selfish!

Steam gamers will not spend $. 20.  30. Or 50. For an fs add on. Very unlikely at this point

The mistake a lot of you are making is you are differentiating between “flight simmers” and “steam gamers”. They aren’t separate entities. I’m willing to bet that the majority of fsx users are “steam gamers” now. The misconception on avsim and other flightsim sites is still to look down upon “steam gamers” as some sort of less serious, entertainment only sub genre of pc user.  I’m definitely a steam user and also an extremely nerdy, full add on p3d user with thousands invested in hardware and software. I think there is actually a huge cross over of users like me who enjoy all levels of computer entertainment. Just because I like absolute realism in a sim doesn’t mean I can enjoy other games or that I have to buy only from flightsim outlets.

Look at this list of the top 100 games currently being played in steam.

http://store.steampowered.com/stats/

You may or may not know what they all are but the majority of them are heavy duty complicated games that require a lot of thought and strategy, they aren’t light hearted run around mindless action games that steam users get painted with(not that there is anything wrong with those games).

The view that steam gamers, if that is even a thing, are kids and are cheap so won’t/can’t spend money is outdated and has been for years. Steam a serious software distribution platform used by mostly adults for games, sims and productivity software. It isn’t just a kids playground.

Chris

1 hour ago, tutmeister said:

The mistake a lot of you are making is you are differentiating between “flight simmers” and “steam gamers”. They aren’t separate entities.

Hi Chris, my apologies for sounding condescending towards Steam gamers, that wasn't my intention - I've never completed any shooter or adventure game without a walkthrough and/or God mode cheat!

I was trying to highlight the difference between the specialist flight sim retailers' customer base and Steam's much wider customer base, who I referred to as “flight simmers” and “steam gamers” in general terms.

4 minutes ago, A32xx said:

Hi Chris, my apologies for sounding condescending towards Steam gamers

Hi Tim

This wasn't aimed at you, or anyone else in particular, it is just something that I have seen over the years of avsim browsing and it pops up every time another flightsim product appears on steam. What you wrote wasn't condescending, you are right, there are far more steam users in general than simmers here but there are simmers here who are steam users too. 

Avsim as a whole has a rather backwards view of what a gamer is and of what steam is. I was merely pointing out that it isn't like that and the popular caricature of a steam gamer doesn't really exist. Most of that games list are sim/strategy/adventure games and not shooters as the populous here would have you believe!

Personally I have spent a fortune on sim products for pretty much every sim over the years and I'd love them to have all to been available on steam. So much easier!

Regards

Chris

3 hours ago, arsenal82 said:

Steam gamers will not spend $. 20.  30. Or 50. For an fs add on. Very unlikely at this point

LOL, what?! Have you seen CSGO, LoL, Dota, PUBG, micro economics? Or how about the $59 games along with $59 season passes that are sold with nearly every game?

You are completely wrong, Steam users, like any consumer, spend on what they enjoy. The platform certainly doesn't make someone buy any less, hence why piracy runs rampant in Flight Simulation. Look at the folks who reviewed the Piper so far, one owns 2066 products!  The others own hundreds of other products. Does that seem like they don't spend? 

Steam users likely spend even more because of the review system, refund policy, and confidence in the ease of use of the Steam system. 

On 9/9/2017 at 11:47 AM, arsenal82 said:

Steam gamers will not spend $. 20.  30. Or 50. For an fs add on. Very unlikely at this point

I just looked on my Steam account and there are 83 games in my library, so I'm pretty sure that makes me a 'gamer'. Many of those games cost way more than some flight sim add-ons I've bought too.

It may be a lot of people's perception on the face of it, but the notion that gamers are all 14 year old kids with the attention span of a goldfish, who are only interested in capping people online in simplistic first person shooters and don't have money to spend, is about as far removed from the truth as one could get. Don't forget that a decent gaming computer is gonna cost a grand at least; those gamers are not poor people. One only has to consider the fact that computer gaming has been around as a large business since the days of Commodore 64 etc, and that is literally decades, so there are a great many gamers who are well past middle age, who have plenty of disposable income to throw at stuff they come across on Steam.

This is why many computer games these days are pretty cerebral too - they are catering for adults - so it would also be a mistake to assume gamers don't like complexity or challenges, or be willing to pay for that. Take for example the online RPG The Secret World, this is a game based on the writings of HP Lovecraft, so it's hardly aimed at young kids, and whilst absolutely does indeed involve going around killing stuff, it also contains quests and puzzles which require some serious outside the box thinking and quite a good knowledge of literature, history, geography, physics, chemistry etc, i.e. some seriously intelligent investigatory skills. Trust me, some of those puzzles make learning the FMC on an airliner look like childsplay in comparison. And that RPG is also full of additional DLC you can buy too.

DTG would not keep on making the literally hundreds of DLC add-ons for its train sims at 25 quid a pop if they were not certain people on Steam would buy that stuff. The fact is, gamers like new toys, and most blokes, and indeed quite a few women too, can't resist trains and planes, you only have to go to an airshow or a science museum to know that. They're full of people with cameras which cost an arm and a leg, airband scanners which are similarly expensive and they're all queuing up to take ten minute pleasure flights on choppers for 50 quid a pop. People who like that kind of stuff are not skint and wouldn't think twice about buying a realistic add-on airliner for their PC flight sim for 50 quid or more when it is shoved in their face on Steam. FSW is almost certainly going to be a massive money earner, that's exactly why DTG are making it.

well Chock

your posts are so long it is easy to get lost in there - they make a good read

however - spot the trend   fsx se - fsw

train sim -  csv heavy haul

however ........  and surely time will tell

 

7 hours ago, arsenal82 said:

Steam gamers will not spend $. 20.  30. Or 50. For an fs add on. Very unlikely at this point

Like everybody is saying, they will, some people spend thousands of dollars in add-ons and cosmetic items for the games.

Look at the value of this profile:
 

48 minutes ago, arsenal82 said:

well Chock

your posts are so long it is easy to get lost in there - they make a good read

however - spot the trend   fsx se - fsw

train sim -  csv heavy haul

however ........  and surely time will tell

 

And your posts are so fragmented with false information, non existant sources, and blind hatred for this product, they are equally easy to get lost in. 

Time will tell, and so far, it seems that FSW delivers more than anyone here expected. 

Actually do we really have a choice now. Besides the developers website and Steam ,can you even buy a game in a retail store now. And like who ever said with that 2 hour , 14 day refund thing, which I only just found out about. And the simplicity of no serial numbers etc.. and I hated Steam and refused to get on there and I was WRONG, yes I said I was WRONG! People will buy what they want. Maybe they don't want to buy addon's for FSW. I have no idea! Gamer's, Steamer's,, Retail Boxer's, unit I tell you!

I am mainly a simmer and I would never pay over 15 euros for a plane...

And yes I have plenty of planes...

-eelis-

3 hours ago, eelis said:

I am mainly a simmer and I would never pay over 15 euros for a plane...

We all have a limit on what we're prepared to pay but as a general point you simply don't get the sort of fidelity and extras offered by the likes of A2A and PMDG for €15 or less (perhaps with the exception of the Jahn/Visser freeware C–47). If you have FSX or P3D and you haven't tried them you don't know what you're missing.