Hi Jim,TNG's only? I thought they also controlled VFR approach pattern behavior.Take care,--Tom GibsonCal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.comFreeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.comDrop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

Hi All, I've made activeIGS13 lase year but due to many different add-on had many different altitute. Therefore, I deleted my file. I can't wait the new FPS frendly Kai Tak scenery to born! The Kai Tak's altitute is 15 feets but default scenery and many and mmm...many add-on for Kai-tak is set for wrong "0" FEET! That's why I deleted my file. That's too interrupt me. :-mad Hope I can download the new VHHX soon:9 Wayne Hsu

Marc,I was lucky enough to be flying for Dragonair at the time they were closing Kai Tak and opening the new Chek Lap Kok airport (with lots of problems for everybody as they rushed for the official opening before it was really ready to go).Height restrictions for the Kai Tak airport were indeed for the IGS13 final approach only and as I can recall there was quite a lot of high-rise real estate development to the north of Kai Tak (particularily accross the water at Kwai Tung).Funny enough, there was a lot of construction going on around Kowloon at the time we were still using Kai Tak, yet the law was that they had to stop construction at certain level before the airport actually moved to Lantau.The most intriguing case was the Whampoa Gardens skyscraper which got half finished by 1998 and just stood there for several months like that.Anyway, this is all the thing of the past now - regretfully as IGS13 was one challenging approach especially with Typhoon closing in and airport trying to squeeze most of the aircraft in before they had to close it for the big wind.CheersDom

Here's a cockpit video of an Alitalia MD-11 landing at Kai Tak - kinda interesting...The video isn't the best quality, but you can definitely tell the landing went a little crazy (bank angle alarm at < 30' off the ground???)http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7...61787&q=Kai+Tak** The landing part begins at about 7:30 minutes, the first part is just them flying while looking at some approach charts and stuff **

Hi Wayne,nice to see you here. I managed the elevation issue now... I just copied the VHHX AFCAD into the scenery/world/scenery folder as well. Now everything works fine on 15 ft Kai Tak level and I am so happy having managed it, thanks to your actigs13 file. It's awesome watching the AI taking the IGS approach. Thanks a lot for a working Kai Tak. Greetings from David.

>The video isn't the best quality, but you can definitely tell>the landing went a little crazy (bank angle alarm at < 30' off>the ground???)Whoa, that's horrible! Too tight on the turn, too fast, and too high. He overshot badly there. Yikes. Anyway, he got down.My Cathay friends tell me they would never have flown into Hong Kong as a passenger on any other airline in the Kai Tak days. This was not a critique of others' skills, simply experience. The average Cathay pilot flew in and out of Kai Tak 15 days a month, probably. Pilots from other international airlines, given their rosters, probably undertook that approach very rarely .... maybe once every month or so? .... so one can see their point!MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

Tom The User Aircraft doing TNG's or arriving from a different airport (VFR) is a selectable entry into the traffic pattern or tower controlled based on direction of flight. The AI Traffic uses a different set of rules. If IFR/VFR departing on a FP then the turn is always the shortest radius to the direct circle route. If arriving IFR/VFR on a FP the pattern is based on heading of the arrival.What that leaves is why a tick for right hand/left hand pattern and altitudes seen with AFCAD. Also the pattern is owned by the runway as seen in the XML coding and not the Approach sequence.Several years ago my testing revealed that a AI Plane Flightplan that is set for a TNG VFR flag does not honor the altitude setting written in the FP. The altitude setting in the FP is based on a AI Plane going from one airport to another (IFR/VFR). This comes from the runway Start Location values based on 2 different runways. Also because the FP is TNG and not a direct line to another airport the lefthand/righthand pattern is enforced. This is because the runway Start Location is the same both for departure and arrival.If I want AI Planes to TNG VFR with a right hand pattern at 3000 ft pattern altitude I set this in AFCAD for runway properties. This does not affect anything else about that airport for arrivals or departures with the User Airplane or AI on a FP from one place to another. The lefthand/righthand/pattern altitude (seen with AFCAD) is the only area that the XML coding for approaches does not have any control of for AI Traffic that is VFR doing TNG's.If I code VFR TNG's at Kai Tak for runway 13 I must set the runway properties seen with AFCAD to a righthand pattern (force the turn) and pattern altitude to 3000 ft agl.VFR TNG's for runway 31 must be lefthand pattern tick in AFCAD at 3000 ft pattern altitude. Once again the TNG altitude in the TTools compiled FP is disregarded once FS9 sees a TNG flag in the FP. All TNG's at that point must honor what the runway XML owns and not the approach XML data. My testing is not always inclusive and varibles may apply but I look for the standard base of the AI Traffic engine scheme.Maybe we are saying the same thing in the end but my answers don't have correct clarity.

WayneI also have your actigs13 bgl dated last year around April time frame. I am not sure why it did not get alot of recognition but for those that don't know, Wayne's bgl has the IGS 13 and ILS 31 with User Transistion approaches coded for all AI Traffic and it works great.I held off in decompiling your bgl until after I wrote my XML. I did not want any influence on what you had witten but wanted to wait and see if they resembled each other. Some differences are the TERMINAL_WAYPOINT's (unnamed varibles) LAT/LON positions, 2 digit approach codes but the actual xml offset headings are about the same. The AI Track to runway 13 is also identical.Very nice work and the file should have received a lot more attention for its time (a year ago) then what it did.The first succesful AI Plane IGS 13 approach (written in XML) belongs to Wayne and we need to give credit where credit is due.A update on my Kai TakMoving along a little slow at this point. Placing all the colorful default FS9 buildings (Apartment and Office) along with the Maint and Cargo area is somewhat tedious at times. Reading and designing colorful walls, windows and rooftops with xml (blue/red/brown/green/etc.) is time consuming. Almost 8 hours alone just to place the leadin ILS approach lighting platform for runway 31 that FS9 supplied in the Library. It is surprising what mdl models FS9 has available but did not use in the original release. It just takes time to go through many default models to find what is needed where. For those interested in FPS impact I am keeping them as low as possible. Hong Kong in general is frame intensive so all my design and testing is on a 1.5 gig machine (Windows ME) with 512k RAM and a ATI 9700 pro card.If this machine will run FPS at 20 (normal autogen and scenery settings) when I am done then I have accomplished my goal.So far the biggest hog of FPS is the amount of fictitious FP's and AI Traffic that I load at all the new default FS9 Jetways (8 total) and parking spots for testing purposes (IGS13 approach and proper airport function). Sorry but I don't do screen shots even though I do use FSScreen for picture comparison. One last note and that is I have made a 3rd party (stand alone) bgl so if you elect to use one of the exsisting scenery's available the AI Planes will fly the IGS approach correctly and all GPS receiver User approaches display and "Load" "Activate" correctly.

Hey guys, what ever happened to the nine dragons project?Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpg

HI,Building height restricions in Kowloon were set at 17 floors ( 18 including ground floor ).I was resident in HK for about a year (1990)... and during my early days there I lived on floor 17 of Chung King Mansions - Nathon Rd... what an experience that was... lifts out of action.. or queue too long... so it was 17 stories of fire escape stairs... mostly blocked with rubbish... all in 30C heat and high humidity. I was slim in those days!Anyone know what happened to Chung King mansions... someone told me they were demolished! Why? Cheers,Paul ( SPIM )

>I am not sure why it did not get alot of recognition but for>those that don't know, Wayne's bgl has the IGS 13 and ILS 31>with User Transistion approaches coded for all AI Traffic and>it works great.Don't know about anyone else, but I had never heard of this file till now and it's apparently not in the library any more which may have something to do with why it isn't all that well known. Nothing I've seen in a FS9 search for Kai Tak mentions the IGS 13 approach and, until I saw this thread, I didn't know it would even be possible to make an approach like that. Scenery or not, checkerboard or not, I know I'd like to see some AI planes trying that approach. :)"Let me help you out. You're cleared to taxi any way you can to any runway you see."

Hey Clayton,9 Dragons is still going strong but thank goodness Jim will be releasing his version... will take some of the heat off of us :D. You can see a few in-progress shots in the screenshot forum:(ooops, guess not. They already took them down)I also looked all over for that IGS file. The only thread I found was a Japanese forum so I couldn't make hide-nor-hair of it's contents. If someone who has it cares to make it available somewhere, it would be mucho appreciated.Gee... these Kai Tak threads never die... long live Kai Tak!

Wayne's file has been linked from my Cathay/Kai Tak site for a year now but yes, the link is dead now, I find. Wayne?Kai Tak fans please note, for future reference, that every file ever uploaded for flightsim concerning Kai Tak - and more that is not flightsim, but related - is showcased on my site pages at:www.swiremariners.com/cx.htmlThe banner below takes you direct to the FS2004 page. I'll have a clean up soon and see if there are any more dead links. Please report any you find, thanks.MarkMark "Dark Moment" BeaumontVP Fleet, DC-3 AirwaysTeam Member, MAAM-SIM[a href=http://www.swiremariners.com/cathayhk.html" target="_blank]http://www.paxship.com/maamlogo2.jpg[/a]

WHoa! That was pretty lousy. Seems like Alitalia and Korean Air had the most exciting landings at Kai Tak.http://www.cpavirtual.org/images/banners/MyNewCrapBanner.jpgEric Thornton - CX001

Yeah I tried that link and even found mentions of it on airliners.net forums (one mentioning the download ID number) and to all appearances it was deleted from the library, and Wayne seems to have said as much earlier in this thread."Let me help you out. You're cleared to taxi any way you can to any runway you see."