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HiFlyer

Jet Airways fires pilots who fought on flight, left cockpit unattended

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I wonder why the Commander was fired as well? http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2018/01/09/jet-airways-fires-pilots-who-fought-on-flight-left-cockpit-unattended.html

What a mess...... :mellow:

Jet Airways has ultimately decided to terminate the employment of two employees who got into a heated in-flight fight on New Year's Day, during which the male co-pilot allegedly slapped his female commander and later left the cockpit completely unattended.

"Consequent to the review of the events … Jet Airways has terminated services of both the cockpit crew with immediate effect," said the airline in a statement obtained by the AFP.

Jet Airways had initially grouned the two pilots following an incident during a 9-hour trip from London to Mumbai on Jan 1. During the altercation, which occurred shortly after takeoff, the male co-pilot allegedly slapped the aircraft’s female commander, prompting her to leave the cockpit of the Boeing 777 in tears, according to sources for The Times of India.

“She stood in the galley sobbing,” said a source. “The cabin crew tried to comfort her and send her back to the cockpit, but in vain.”

The male co-pilot, still in the cockpit, then called out over the intercom for the commander to come back to the controls. When she wouldn’t, the co-pilot violated aviation safety rules and exited the cockpit himself — effectively leaving no one at the controls — to persuade her to return, per the Associated Press.

The woman reportedly returned to the cockpit with the co-pilot, only to exit again a little while later. This time, the plane’s crew was “quite afraid” of what was happening between the two senior commanders, as were the passengers in the cabin, sources say.

The flight crew eventually managed to coax the woman back into the captain’s seat, and the plane landed safely in London just after midnight on Jan. 2.

The airline later confirmed that both pilots were reported to India’s Directorate of General Civil Aviation over the “misunderstanding” on the flight, but claimed that the altercation was “resolved amicably.”

“At Jet Airways, safety of guests, crew and assets is of paramount importance and the airline has zero tolerance for any action of its employees that compromises safety,” the airline said in an earlier statement to The Times of India.

The Directorate of General Civil Aviation, or the DGCA, had confirmed the suspension of the male co-pilot’s license at the time. The DGCA and the airline subsequently investigated the incident, which the DGCA had called a “serious issue.”

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If the report of the journalist is accurate, I can understand the decision of the airline. I wouldn't want to fly with either of them as pilots.

 

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5 minutes ago, Murmur said:

If the report of the journalist is accurate, I can understand the decision of the airline. I wouldn't want to fly with either of them as pilots.

 

It seems the commander was essentially assaulted for unknown reasons, and exited the situation..... Where is the fault, if she was fearful of her safety? What was the alternative option? :hemm:

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2 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

It seems the commander was essentially assaulted for unknown reasons, and exited the situation..... Where is the fault, if she was fearful of her safety? What was the alternative option? :hemm:

Just to be clear, it's not a matter of genre. If a male pilot slaps his male commander, and then in reaction the commander leaves the cockpit, then refuses to enter the cockpit again, leaving the controls of the aircraft to the person who he deems is acting in a dangerous and violent way, well, I wouldn't want to fly with that commander.

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The commander is responsible for the safety of aircraft and the passengers. And he/she leaves the cockpit in tears? With the crew trying to convince him/her to get back in the cockpit? ARE WE KIDDING?

 

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You still haven't given the alternative...

Fistfight in the cockpit?

And of course gender is relevent. Your average male has about 40% more upper body strength than your average female...

So... what was her most logical and safest option? If she had been seriously injured pretending to be a Jedi in the cockpit, people would be asking "Why did she stay?"

Unless she was willing to risk a very dubious and dangerous physical altercation amidst the controls of a working aircraft, what were her safest choices for all concerned?

I suspect the "In tears" part of the incident is whats causing the problem...

Of course, she could have tried ordering him to bahave or to leave the cockpit.....

Unless thats what caused the fight in the first place.....

 

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Hi Folks,

Well then the "commander" should have enlisted the help of the crew and/or passengers to subdue the threat to her aircraft - if the threat of physical violence was real and imminent... Leaving your post and crying in a passageway - IS NOT AN OPTION... Makes you wonder how she would have handled a true emergency and engenders a complete loss of confidence... 

Regards,
Scott

 

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So crew and passengers storm the cockpit...... :bengong:

Sounds like an action movie, and really dangerous.

I'm not sure I see the improvement in the situation.

I agree the commander is responsible for the aircrafts safety. I just think leaving the confrontation, at least temporarily, given the apparent intensity of the situation might have been one of the more valid of a list of bad options.

Pride, and proving how "in charge" she is/was probably comes/came in a hopefully distant last, to letting the flight get on the ground safely where the authorities can get involved.

I see no evidence that her co-pilot was ever a danger to the plane itself. But a confrontation in the cockpit certainly could be.

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27 minutes ago, YukonPete said:

 

I don't believe anything on Fox news! 

 

 

Agree for Fox news, but I think that the facts reported was near the reality because in a professional french pilots review of this week, I read the same story.

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I'd have made her a nice cup of tea, then jumped into the left hand seat ! As would most of us... 

No, No, it's fine..Jet Airways would not have to pay me the going rate for a Captain or even First officer... I'd do it for free (just the once!). :blink::laugh:

Ahem, back to reality. If she was really that distressed then what should she have done? I think (as a layman) she should have at least got the co-pilot (EDIT she was the co-pilot it seems) so OTHER pilot out of there, radio'd ATC and the airline. If there were no relief crew on board, then maybe a diversion to land ASAP?

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/jet-airways-sacks-2-pilots-after-mid-air-fight-and-slap-inside-cockpit-1797708

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3 minutes ago, silverheels2 said:

Gotta be sex. No other realistic possibility.

??? really? That escalated quickly!! Did she spurn his advances, or did he turn her down? :blink::angry:

Come on, the smut could be one possibility, but there are many other reasons which can cause these arguments between two people... 

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4 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

You still haven't given the alternative...

Fistfight in the cockpit?

And of course gender is relevent. Your average male has about 40% more upper body strength than your average female...

So... what was her most logical and safest option? If she had been seriously injured pretending to be a Jedi in the cockpit, people would be asking "Why did she stay?"

Unless she was willing to risk a very dubious and dangerous physical altercation amidst the controls of a working aircraft, what were her safest choices for all concerned?

I suspect the "In tears" part of the incident is whats causing the problem...

Of course, she could have tried ordering him to bahave or to leave the cockpit.....

Unless thats what caused the fight in the first place.....

 

The alternative? 

I would expect a captain to take control of the situation. That means getting the FO out if the cockpit if it's gotten to a seriously bad point....at that point, it's an emergency.

Not to leave the cockpit because she's been "assaulted." Thst goes for a man as well. 

There shouldn't be a serious altercation in a cockpit ever. We all can agreed on this. But a leader needs to do whatever they can to de-escalate something like this.

Honestly, I expect a captain in this situation to suck it up just enough to hold it together so the dingbat who slapped her can calm down. At thst point, do whatever needs to be done to continually keep the situation calm.....whicj may be taking a much more quite leadership role. Let's be honest, at this point, as a captain, your only job is to get the airplane down safely while preserving as much of the operation as possible for the people in the back. 

At the end of the day, she has a ton of people to keep safe and if thst means getting slapped a agsin in order to get the airplane down safwly....then that comes with the territory.

 

Kinda like the captain goes down with the ship.

 

For what it's worth, I had an FO yell at me and berate me for taking the controls from him in flight because he put the airplane in a situation thst if it continued, would end up quite badly. 

All I did was let him say what he needed to say, get it off his chest and calm down. I swallowed my pride after the moment and apologized for offending him. I also told him I didn't feel comfortable with what he had done.......

When we got on the ground and at the gate, I pulled him off the trip and gave him my very stern 2 cents on the matter. Needless to say, he's not working for the company anymore. 

There are better ways to handle a situation than what she did.

 

Disclaimer: im not condoning someown allowing someone to let them get slapped around. The fact that someone slapped her is so out if line. I can't believe thst someone actually would slap their superior no matter what gender or whatever they are.

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7 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

I would expect a captain to take control of the situation. That means getting the FO out if the cockpit if it's gotten to a seriously bad point....at that point, it's an emergency.

So, what would you do, exactly?

Short of confrontation?

As of now, I kind of feel that most comments are in the line of "Show some balls and toss in some testosterone" But that could be me. So I'm asking for some concrete steps.

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We dont know what happened in the cockpit, but regardless, it is not OK for a crew member to get physical and slap his/her coworker (call me old fashion, but a man hitting a woman is a show of cowardliness), specially while being airborne. As a captain, I understand some of the comments about leadership and de-escalation tactics, but you never know how things are going to turn based on what the situation is. Unfortunately the world of aviation is not safe to abuse in the work place, I can think of a few times getting in the cockpit with a captain being quite disrespectful because I was a junior FO, but we all deal with situations differently, and without being there to witness what really took place between these 2, I am having a hard time "judging" the Captain's actions. Bottom line is , the F.O slapped his captain, and left the cockpit unattended, these are unprofessional behaviors....

John.

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16 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

So, what would you do, exactly?

Short of confrontation?

As of now, I kind of feel that most comments are in the line of "Show some balls and toss in some testosterone" But that could be me. So I'm asking for some concrete steps.

I honestly feel it is a huge "swallow your pride" moment.

Fighting back is just going to make things worse. I'm sure we agree on that.

For me,....

I would take the slap in the face ask a simple "was that necessary?" 

I'm sure he would habe something to say about it.

Then I would not say anything back and what it oi t a few minutes. This would be extremely hard because of any ego but it's what needs to be done.

Then I would go into damage control mode.

I would ask what I did to offend this guy and then apologize no matter if he's flat out wrong. 

For me personally, I have found out that a lot of people just want to be heard when they do things like this. The best thing is to do whatever you can to let it run its course hoping it will all calm down.

It takes a huge amount of humility to literally turn the other cheek in these types of situations. However, you have to be bigger than yourself for a minute and realize thst you may have to sacrifice every ounce of respect for yourself in order to get a plane this size and with this many people to the ground safely. It takes a ton of humility, an amount thst most people don't have.

All this can be said if the captain was the one beating up on the FO. 

There's always a time and a place for things. If I'm getting assaulted on the flight deck, im not going to get emotional and try to fix things there. I'm going to wait on the ground and go through the proper avenues such as law enforemcent or whatever I have at my disposal. 

We gotta think big picture here. Bigger than ourselves and our egos. 

If it doesn't, then as a super last resort, get other crewmembers to get him out of the cockpit. This is a super super last resort. 

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4 minutes ago, 757FO said:

We dont know what happened in the cockpit, but regardless, it is not OK for a crew member to get physical and slap his/her coworker (call me old fashion, but a man hitting a woman is a show of cowardliness), specially while being airborne. As a captain, I understand some of the comments about leadership and de-escalation tactics, but you never know how things are going to turn based on what the situation is. Unfortunately the world of aviation is not safe to abuse in the work place, I can think of a few times getting in the cockpit with a captain being quite disrespectful because I was a junior FO, but we all deal with situations differently, and without being there to witness what really took place between these 2, I am having a hard time "judging" the Captain's actions. Bottom line is , the F.O slapped his captain, and left the cockpit unattended, these are unprofessional behaviors....

John.

Agreed

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I would be extremely interested to hear opinions of real airline pilots here.

I think everyone agrees that the male pilot is inexcusable and deserved at least a licence suspension. But I can't believe someone could judge the behaviour of the female pilot professional in the least.

With regard to physical force: if a big and heavy FO slaps the Captain, is it ok for him to leave the cockpit in reaction? I think this discussion is surreal...

Of course, all of this in the hypothesis that the events as described by the press are accurate.

 

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We can't give a proper answer to what we would do or what would have been the proper steps, since we do not know the whole truth of the story.

Everything reported in the media/press nowadays is hardly ever the truth.

 

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23 minutes ago, Murmur said:

But I can't believe someone could judge the behaviour of the female pilot professional in the least.

Perhaps not, but I would think that being attacked is a heck of an extenuating circumstance......

I suspect if I was her, and the circumstances were exactly as written, my lawsuit would be incoming.

I would'nt be surprised if thats what we hear next about this story, as he's also the one who left the cockpit unattended by coming out after her.....

However since this isn't a US airline, who knows what legal protections the crew has?

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51 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

However since this isn't a US airline, who knows what legal protections the crew has?

Well, the linked article to the Indian newspaper did report that Jet has stated they would support her if she chooses to pursue this legally. That sounds like all the support they could offer under the circumstances.

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