saywhuut0627

Countering the Shimmering

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Posted (edited)

I've been out of P3D for a while, and am wanting to get back into it.  I've always struggled with the AA/shimmering balancing act.  4x sgss performance hit etc.  What I need your help with is, if I upgrade to a 1440p monitor, would I in theory need less AA to not have the shimmering issue?  If so then I think I'm ready to give it another go.  Currently have 1080p monitor, i5 4670k @ 4.5 ghz, gtx 1070, 16gb ram

 

Thanks for your input!

Edited by saywhuut0627

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Don't know if this would apply to you..... but in my case I can achieve butter performance with no shimmering. I tried many ways to get no stutter, and be able to raise the the aa. See if this works for you.

P3dv4 at full screen

Set the refresh at 30hz in nvidia

Set you max fps to 31 in p3dv4  ..... not 30 as you would think..... worked wonders on my system

test different p3dv4 graphic settings to see what works on your system

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Posted (edited)

My current monitor does not appear to be able to do 30 hz.  Is that unusual?

Edited by Mace

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48 minutes ago, Mace said:

My current monitor does not appear to be able to do 30 hz.  Is that unusual?

I wouldn't bother trying to follow his advice. As well meaning as it is, the only way to reduce shimmering in any meaningful way while maintaining usable FPS is to turn off dynamic lighting and turn up AA. There's no reason that lowering your refresh rate would change the equation.

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Posted (edited)

The refresh rate tweak is to lock your frame rate via the refresh rate outside the sim to force it to run at 30fps, allowing a stutter free experience because the frames are in sync with the rate at which your monitor refreshes. 30hz/30fps = one frame per refresh etc. Otherwise your screen is refreshing at 60hz and if you’re only getting 42 frames then frames are landing in the middle of refreshes = stutters.

But that’s nothing to do with shimmering which as already stated can only be fixed with anti aliasing. Bear in mind that if you can run a 4k monitor you don’t need so much AA as the pixels themselves are so tiny. 

I have a 6700k @4.8 and a 1080TI which runs 4k nicely without the need for a lot of AA. In fact at night with dynamic lighting I can turn off the AA completely to help keep the sim smooth. It’s not ideal but it’s liveable until LM fix DL. 

Edited by Airline2Sim

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I had good luck knocking down (almost all of the) shimmering moving from a 1920 x 1200 monitor to a 1440P.  Additionally, I long ago settled on the following settings:

In the sim I use 4xSSAA.  In Nvidia Inspector I use the following: Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting, Antialiasing - Setting = Application controlled, Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = 4x Supersampling.

HTH,

Greg

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58 minutes ago, lownslo said:

I had good luck knocking down (almost all of the) shimmering moving from a 1920 x 1200 monitor to a 1440P.  Additionally, I long ago settled on the following settings:

In the sim I use 4xSSAA.  In Nvidia Inspector I use the following: Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting, Antialiasing - Setting = Application controlled, Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = 4x Supersampling.

HTH,

Greg

Thanks Greg, I think I'll go for the 1440p route, also for other reasons (photos/g sync for other games/etc).  Which monitor did you end up going with?

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BenQ PD2700Q.  Quite happy with it.

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3 hours ago, lownslo said:

In the sim I use 4xSSAA.  In Nvidia Inspector I use the following: Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting, Antialiasing - Setting = Application controlled, Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = 4x Supersampling.

HTH,

Greg

Thanks for this.  I was using 8xMSAA.  Your 4xSSAA is much better to fight shimmering.

FXAA on seems to help even more.  I've heard some people say FXAA really hurts performance.  It may, I will see how my 1080ti handles it.  I'm not running a 4k monitor right now.

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FXAA has very little impact on performance but the downside is it kind of blurs everything together. 

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10 hours ago, saywhuut0627 said:

I've been out of P3D for a while, and am wanting to get back into it.  I've always struggled with the AA/shimmering balancing act.  4x sgss performance hit etc.  What I need your help with is, if I upgrade to a 1440p monitor, would I in theory need less AA to not have the shimmering issue?  If so then I think I'm ready to give it another go.  Currently have 1080p monitor, i5 4670k @ 4.5 ghz, gtx 1070, 16gb ram

 

Thanks for your input!

I have a 1440p monitor. With HDR on, 4xSSAA P3D setting  (or 4xSGSS NI setting) is still needed to avoid shimmering. With HDR off, 8xMSAA (P3D) is good enough.

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12 hours ago, lownslo said:

I had good luck knocking down (almost all of the) shimmering moving from a 1920 x 1200 monitor to a 1440P.  Additionally, I long ago settled on the following settings:

In the sim I use 4xSSAA.  In Nvidia Inspector I use the following: Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting, Antialiasing - Setting = Application controlled, Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = 4x Supersampling.

HTH,

Greg

@lownslo is there a need to set the AA also via the inspector? What is the advantage in doing so?

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Don't know that there's any real advantage... I make the setting in sim, NVI, and Nvidia Control Panel primarily for organizational purposes.  I can look at either of the three and know what I would see in the registry (which is what matters the most).  Of course, I do the same with other settings as well.  Helps keep my OCD brain happy :biggrin:.

Greg

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45 minutes ago, lownslo said:

Don't know that there's any real advantage... I make the setting in sim, NVI, and Nvidia Control Panel primarily for organizational purposes.  I can look at either of the three and know what I would see in the registry (which is what matters the most).  Of course, I do the same with other settings as well.  Helps keep my OCD brain happy :biggrin:.

Greg

Multisampling in Nvidia is the equivalent of MSAA in game

SGSS (super grid sampling) in Nvidia is the equivalent of SSAA in game?

 

Thanks!

 

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11 hours ago, Nemo said:

I have a 1440p monitor. With HDR on, 4xSSAA P3D setting  (or 4xSGSS NI setting) is still needed to avoid shimmering. With HDR off, 8xMSAA (P3D) is good enough.

Assuming you are using dynamic lighting... how are you not tanking your FPS when using SSAA?

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54 minutes ago, Shomron said:

Multisampling in Nvidia is the equivalent of MSAA in game

SGSS (super grid sampling) in Nvidia is the equivalent of SSAA in game?

 

Thanks!

 

As far as I know, you shouldn't use Nvidia Inspector or CP if settings are available in P3D already. I belive this would be a waste of resources, and there would be a fps hit for that. Almost every time is better(for performance)to use "in game"settings rather then external. 

SSAA is a "Super sampling anti-aliasing", there's no SGSS in P3D. You can set it via Nvidia Inspector(set Antialiasing mode to "Enhance the application setting" first, otherwise it's not going to work)and will help a lot with shimmering, but there could be a big fps hit, depending on your hardware and screen resolution. I used SGSS with FSX, i'm not using with P3Dv4 becouse of performance

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1 hour ago, Shomron said:

SGSS (super grid sampling) in Nvidia is the equivalent of SSAA in game?

Indeed, the designations can be confusing.  They are not the same though.  More info here: http://www.overclock.net/forum/74-graphics-cards-general/1329979-anti-aliasing-basics.html

SGSS is covered in the section titled "Supersample anti-aliasing (SSAA)", while today's SSAA is covered under the section titled "Transparency anti-aliasing".  See, that's not confusing, eh? :huh:

Suffice to say that in P3D, SGSS (which can only be enabled in NVI) can bring an ugly performance hit.  Which may be why it's not offered in the sim?

HTH,

Greg

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1 hour ago, lodestar said:

As far as I know, you shouldn't use Nvidia Inspector or CP if settings are available in P3D already.

All any of these apps do (including the game/sim) is set a flag in the registry.  Doesn't matter how many times the flag is set... the risk is in setting different flags for the same setting (operator error).

Greg

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1 hour ago, lownslo said:

All any of these apps do (including the game/sim) is set a flag in the registry.  Doesn't matter how many times the flag is set... the risk is in setting different flags for the same setting (operator error).

Greg

It does matter, see the second post here, this guy is from NVIDIA BTW, so i belive him:

https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/534164/fxaa-control-panel-vs-ingame/

It really depends on game, but the general rule is to use in game settings for better performance. By using both, you are using in game settings + you are forcing external(driver)settings to override this - in game settings, it sounds like a problem to me

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After recently reinstalling P3D, I have no idea how people play at 30FPS and are happy with it.

I used to do the same thing, but maybe it's getting used to other games while not simming for a while, but the panning is just not smooth until I'm over 40FPS.

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I guess everyone's setup is different. I have a 1080, running at 4.7 ghz on the processor. I'm running 30 htz on the monitor (samsung 55" TV) at 4096x2160. Honestly, it could not be any smoother. I run xplane 11 also, and I keep coming back to this because it is so smooth. In xplane I spend more time fiddling with settings than actual flying....lol.  For some reason when I locked at 31 fps, it was like butter. I would think it needs to be at 30 fps. I guess it's just the right setup for my TV. I can pan around fast as I want and it's totally smooth. If I see it drop below 30, I adjust a setting.

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I can confirm that at least 1 setting works best for me when set via the inspector which is the FPS limiting.

If I limit the FPS in-game performance and stutters are everywhere. For this reason I think I will explore more with the AA settings in the inspector.

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Posted (edited)

There IS another way to reduce the shimmering, and that is to add mipmaps to textures that don't have them as default. It works wonders with cockpit textures as well (panels, gauges), as you can see in this video I made a while back:

You must watch it full screen to really see the effect. The quality of the textures will be slightly degraded because they will be re-copmpressed, but that's well worth it in my oppinion.

Just remember to make backups of your textures before you start experimenting.

 

As you see you can have an almost shimmer free experience without any SGAA at all. You'll need dxtbmp (freeware) or Imagetool (comes with the SDK) to modify the textures.

And yes, a higher resolution monitor will help as well. I recently went from 1080p to 1440p and I would never go back.

Edited by neumanix

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