captain_adf

Windshield failure

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Could you land with no forward visibility?  Take a look at AA-1897 which diverted after a massive hail storm shattered the front windshields on the flight deck (and did quite a number on the radome cover as well).

It appears the safety glass didn't break into the flight deck but the spidering made it impossible to see anything using the forward windows.

Is there any way to simulate total obscuration of the forward windscreens on a PMDG aircraft?  That would be an interesting challenge if it could be added to the Failure scenarios!

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, captain_adf said:

Could you land with no forward visibility?  Take a look at AA-1897 which diverted after a massive hail storm shattered the front windshields on the flight deck (and did quite a number on the radome cover as well).

It appears the safety glass didn't break into the flight deck but the spidering made it impossible to see anything using the forward windows.

Is there any way to simulate total obscuration of the forward windscreens on a PMDG aircraft?  That would be an interesting challenge if it could be added to the Failure scenarios!

In FS8 and FS9 there were IFR 2D panels for the C182 that filled the screen up. Change your viewpoint in the 3D panel to only see your panel(s)... that‘s probably the closest you can get.

Or change your weather to zero visibility

it‘s actually nothing else than an autoland at Cat 3c

Edited by Ephedrin

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Posted (edited)

I don't the technical response nor the regulation in the matter but at least if your aircraft and the crew are both certified for ILS catIII approach, with the airport configuring the runway and ILS with the correct protections, then you would be safe.

Maybe you would be also allowed to perform an autoland following a catI or catII ils in this case as well?

Anyway, if you cannot see anything through the windshield, I would try to go as much as possible for an autoland. But this is only my logic and is based on no real pilot experience or procedure/regulation knowledge.

A manual landing totally blind would be very risky since performing the flare based only on instruments seems quite tricky to me.

Edited by Budbud

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27 minutes ago, Budbud said:

Maybe you would be also allowed to perform an autoland following a catI or catII ils in this case as well?

FAR 91.3b

Done.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

FAR 91.3b

Done.

Makes sense.

Thanks for the reference.

However, still remains to me what a professional pilot would do in this case, but I guess it depends on the situation and the available airports.

Would they perform an autoland on a runway not equipped with ILS (RNAV/GPS) or with an ILS catI?

Is it possible to land manually only with the instruments (flare)?

Edited by Budbud

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Just get some IFR foggles and you can simulate it in any FS aeroplane same as you would in a real one.

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Would it be possible for the pilots to put on goggles and then, at the relatively slow speed and low altitude of final approach, depressurize the aircraft, break out a small hole in front of the pilot flying so s/he could see?  I know aircraft have landed safely where the windshield was shattered on one side (in one incident as I recall, one of the pilots was sucked halfway out of the cockpit but pulled back in).

Mike

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A story I recall from decades ago from a KC135 pilot involved opening the side window and crabbing to get safely on the ground.  Much earlier than that, I vaguely recall a Beaver pilot with oil covered windscreen doing about the same thing.  Old military saying, "Plan for war and then improvise like hell when it happens."

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10 minutes ago, downscc said:

KC135 pilot involved opening the side window and crabbing to get safely on the ground

Would be difficult on 747! 😁

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Posted (edited)

I watched a program on UK tv were the pilot was sucked out of the windscreen and they held onto his legs, the aircrash investigation program then found the screen had been replaced with the wrong screws, the screw head was one size below the required size.

Edited by rjfry

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15 hours ago, Budbud said:

I don't the technical response nor the regulation in the matter but at least if your aircraft and the crew are both certified for ILS catIII approach, with the airport configuring the runway and ILS with the correct protections, then you would be safe.

Maybe you would be also allowed to perform an autoland following a catI or catII ils in this case as well?

Anyway, if you cannot see anything through the windshield, I would try to go as much as possible for an autoland. But this is only my logic and is based on no real pilot experience or procedure/regulation knowledge.

A manual landing totally blind would be very risky since performing the flare based only on instruments seems quite tricky to me.

I can’t speak to how Airbus works as I fly a Boeing, but I assume it is similar in that the aircraft can perform an autoland as long as an ILS is available; it need not be a CATIII ILS. I’m not sure what this crew decided to do, but I would venture a guess that if they were able, they performed an autoland an then I believe I read that they were towed to the gate due to the lack of forward visibility.

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13 hours ago, downscc said:

A story I recall from decades ago from a KC135 pilot involved opening the side window and crabbing to get safely on the ground.  Much earlier than that, I vaguely recall a Beaver pilot with oil covered windscreen doing about the same thing.  Old military saying, "Plan for war and then improvise like hell when it happens."

Kermit Weeks uses to do that on his AT-6 xD

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yes this is one of many. you only see what the news want you to see. these event happens all the time.

how I know. I been working for the airline industry as aircraft mechanic for 36 years.

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On 6/5/2018 at 12:01 PM, Bills511 said:

0fgjhs22ndpuu4po8.4389d344.jpg

Win Win. You get a nice slick haircut at the same time! :cool:

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Posted (edited)
On 6/5/2018 at 8:07 PM, Mike777 said:

Would it be possible for the pilots to put on goggles and then, at the relatively slow speed and low altitude of final approach, depressurize the aircraft, break out a small hole in front of the pilot flying so s/he could see?  I know aircraft have landed safely where the windshield was shattered on one side (in one incident as I recall, one of the pilots was sucked halfway out of the cockpit but pulled back in).

Mike

There's no need for goggles if you fly through volcanic ash, because it will sandblast the windscreens for you and make them opaque, as well as damage the engines and electronics. This happened to a BA Jumbo many years ago whilst en-route to Perth in total darkness and all four engines ran down. The ash cloud did not show up on radar and apparently there was no QRH procedure for volcanic ash contamination and avoidance at the time, so the crew had their hands full getting to grips with what the problem was and then attempting to restart the engines.  Fortunately, they managed to get all four engines going but had to shut one down during the diversion to Jakarta because it was badly damaged by the ash which had melted onto the engine blades and ruined its normal airflow. The crew did remarkably well under the circumstances and the Captain was able to land the aircraft manually on three engines, but apparently he had to stand up until the last minute because he could only see out of the bottom left hand corner of his No.1 window - vision out of the rest of it was totally blurred due to the sandblasting effect caused by the ash.

It is almost impossible to break the windows of a commercial jet aircraft. I shudder every time I think back to the awful image of the Pan Am Lockerbie Jumbo cockpit lying on its side in a field with the copilot's window intact.

The other accident you refer to was to a BA 1-11 Captain's windscreen and the co-pilot landed it safely at Southampton.  The Captain went on to make a fuill recovery and returned to flying. He is reported to have said that the only reason the crew kept a tight hold of him was because he had his wallet in his back pocket!

Bertie G     

Edited by berts
typo

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