Skywolf

Ultimate Traffic Live - Simple Questions (Yep, another thread)

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Hi all,

I am contemplating to buy a license for Ultimate Traffic Live, but before I do.  I do have some questions to ask.  And yes, I have been searching all over the forums regarding this application.

1) Am I correct in my assumption that Ultimate Traffic Live engine etc all its calculation is done outside the sim and hence have good frame rates in the sim as the traffic injected? (Kinda like PSXecon)

2) I read somewhere the developer has slowed the updates down in the app? or is it in Active Development. I know this was a huge issue with UT2, and that was the reason I never purchased the license.

Or should I go for another one being developed by Justflight (it sucks that it is a paid beta).

Thanks

 

 

 

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Yes to question one.  Have not heard about issues in question 2.  I was on the UTL beta team, and can attest that the developer was keenly interested in improvements.  I've been using UTL since it was first avaialable in beta form and am very happy with it and have never had any issues with it.

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1) yes it does but, p3d/fsx still has to draw the planes manage the atc etc, so there is still a FPS hit, just less than normal traffic. 

2) developer has posted that there were some issues with updates, but says there will be more updates. I have not seen any updates since I purchased it. 

Im also interested in just flights offering, not sure how it compares to utl. 

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Was the PowerPack ever released?

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The UTL developer is absent at the moment, from what I have gathered he is going through some very hard times due to personal circumstances, if what I heard is true he deserves the required space and have my sympathies.

Hopefully everything will turn out ok and he will return soon.

Best Regards,

Simbol 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, simbol said:

The UTL developer is absent at the moment, from what I have gathered he is going through some very hard times due to personal circumstances, if what I heard is true he deserves the required space and have my sympathies.

Hopefully everything will turn out ok and he will return soon.

Best Regards,

Simbol 

 

 

Thanks for letting all of us know about his situation.  Hopefully everything works out for the developer.

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Just now, Skywolf said:

Thanks for letting all of us know about his situation.  Hopefully everything works out for the developer.

No worries, UTL is great as it stands and I would recommend you to get at this stage.

Traffic Global is still in too early release to be recommended in my personal opinion.

If you fly only online then BVAI is the best you can get!

Regards,

Simbol 

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54 minutes ago, simbol said:

No worries, UTL is great as it stands and I would recommend you to get at this stage.

Traffic Global is still in too early release to be recommended in my personal opinion.

If you fly only online then BVAI is the best you can get!

Regards,

Simbol 

Thank You for the insight.

 

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1.) As others have said yes, but it can sometimes still kill frames. The nice thing is that there is a hotkey to increase and decrease the amount of AI in the sim so you can dynamically adjust if you need to. The sim does not need to reload either.

It's worth it IMHO,

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Skywolf said:

1) Am I correct in my assumption that Ultimate Traffic Live engine etc all its calculation is done outside the sim and hence have good frame rates in the sim as the traffic injected? (Kinda like PSXecon)

This is not entirely correct. Only the calculation when and where an aircraft is created is done externally. Once the aircraft has been injected, the sim has full control again, similar to any other AI product. Any FPS impact is more the result of the aircraft models being used, not the AI/flight plan operation itself. If the models are well optimized and don't have too many content errors, they work equally well for either UTL, any BGL based flight plans or a live traffic product. The only thing that the sim does not have to do with UTL is to parse any traffic BGL files and decide if an AI has to be created somewhere. It is debatable if the user can even notice that (compared to the massive impact that the AI aircraft themselves have once they start humming around in the sim). Not to forget that while it doesn't have to handle BGL flightplans, the sim has to deal with the additional load on the SimConnect API interface that UTL uses. In my experience, AI aircraft being created or deleted via SimConnect have a very noticable impact on smoothness (=the sim stutters).

Best regards

Edited by Lorby_SI
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3 hours ago, newtie said:

Was the PowerPack ever released?

No it has not, for the reason mentioned above, probably.

I used to care about the PowerPack, but now, I was able to manually add Fedex and UPS to my sim, so, I'm ok with not having it.   My standards for AI have dropped over the last 10 years though.  I used to have it all in FSX -- hundreds of BGL based AI with up-to-date schedules and liveries.  Today, I just do not have that kind of time to spend on it.  So, UTL gives me the "plausibly real" AI setup I want.  It is worth it to me, as well.

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One downgrade I find compared to default bgl system is that it does not seem to support real tail numbers or flight levels as provided by the likes of AIG, UTT flight plans. Looking at the addon fedex and ups schdules available in the library they do not appear to use them in the custom schedules either at the moment.

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There are still a number of bugs in the software. I have it and enjoy it for the most part but a check of their forums will indicate a number have remained outstanding since the early beta releases. No show stoppers, mostly just features that don't yet work (or work correctly)

 

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Lorby_SI said:

 Only the calculation when and where an aircraft is created is done externally. Once the aircraft has been injected, the sim has full control again, similar to any other AI product. 

This is not entirely correct. PSXseeconTraffic calculates the position, altitude, pitch and bank 25 times per second OUTSIDE your sim and updates via SimConnect calls. They are "slewed through space" so to speak.

Also landing gear, flaps, lights and so on of every AI aircraft are controlled by PSXseeconTraffic outside your sim.

Edited by kiek
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1 hour ago, kiek said:

This is not entirely correct. PSXseeconTraffic calculates the position, altitude, pitch and bank 25 times per second OUTSIDE your sim and updates via SimConnect calls. They are "slewed through space" so to speak.

Also landing gear, flaps, lights and so on of every AI aircraft are controlled by PSXseeconTraffic outside your sim.

Hello Kiek,

my post was about UTL, not PSXSeecon

Best regards

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6 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

Hello Kiek,

my post was about UTL, not PSXSeecon

Best regards

But PSXSeecontraffic certainly is another alternative. I have been using it alternatively with UTLive for some time now, and according to my experience PSXSeecontraffic has the least effect on fps among the solutions I know. This may be caused by the fact that PSXSeecontraffic runs networked on my laptop freeing resources on the main machine (despite the Simconnect overhead), which can't be done with UTLive, as far as I know,

Certainly both solutions have their pros and cons, but PSXSeecontraffic is better on fps, notably on large hubs full of planes like KSFO.

I also bought Traffic Global to compare, but have been afraid to install it so far not to compromise the two other systems named above both running pretty well right now.

Kind regards, Michael

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1 hour ago, Lorby_SI said:

Hello Kiek,

my post was about UTL, not PSXSeecon

Best regards

Hi Lorby,

I know, but you wrote "Once the aircraft has been injected, the sim has full control again, similar to any other AI product. "

That's not correct.

Regards,

Nico

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, kiek said:

Hi Lorby,

I know, but you wrote "Once the aircraft has been injected, the sim has full control again, similar to any other AI product. "

That's not correct.

Regards,

Nico

Well your statement is not 100% accurate either, the ESP AI engine will be in full control of any injected traffic unless something else takes ownership of the SimObject in which case the ATC ESP AI Engine will lose total awareness of such object since it will be outside of the ATC reality bubble and as a consequence the default  ATC software and any other 3rd party ATC software will be totally unaware of the traffic existence, movements, etc.

What Lorby is trying to explain is that after any AI traffic has been injected via SimConnect it is up to the ATC ESP Engine to fly and control the model, unless the injecting software does not wants to release it back to the ESP engine since it will be controlling it in full.

PSXSeecontraffic do not release the AI traffic back to the ATC ESP engine since it is slewing it around, however UTL (which is the subject of this topic) injects the traffic via SimObject, sets the required traffic way points and release it back to the ESP ATC Engine so it can control it, this has a big advantage as it allows the default ATC and many other 3rd party ATC products to be aware of the traffic around and interact with it accordingly.

All the best,
Simbol

 

Edited by simbol
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, simbol said:

1) ... unless something else takes ownership of the SimObject in which case the ATC ESP AI Engine will lose total awareness of such object since it will be outside of the ATC reality bubble and as a consequence the default  ATC software and any other 3rd party ATC software will be totally unaware of the traffic existence, movements, etc.

2) ... unless the injecting software does not wants to release it back to the ESP engine since it will be controlling it in full.

3) PSXSeecontraffic do not release the AI traffic back to the ATC ESP engine since it is slewing it around, however UTL (which is the subject of this topic) injects the traffic via SimObject, sets the required traffic way points and release it back to the ESP ATC Engine so it can control it, this has a big advantage as it allows the default ATC and many other 3rd party ATC products to be aware of the traffic around and interact with it accordingly.

ad 1) That's indeed true for PSXseeconTraffic. However, there is no need for an ATC program. PSXseeconTraffic is about real live aircraft controlled by real live ATC. (In many countries) you can listen to real live ATC channels.

ad 2) Correct, that's the case with PSXseeconTraffic.

ad 3) as ad 1)  Each program has its pro-s and con's.

I did not want to hi-jack this thread, I only wanted to point to the fact that not all AI programs work the same. 

Regards,

Nico

Edited by kiek
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Kiek, Lorby and Simbol,

Most excellent discussion on this thread.  I really do appreciate it.

 

Excellent feedback on flightsim traffic AI applications

 

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2 minutes ago, Skywolf said:

Kiek, Lorby and Simbol,

Most excellent discussion on this thread.  I really do appreciate it.

 

Excellent feedback on flightsim traffic AI applications

 

The real question is what are you looking for :wink:? everyone has it owns preferences and that is what really matters, you should use what makes your personal flying experience the best posible and enjoyable for you, some key points to keep in mind:

  • If you want as close as posible to real world operations nothing beats VATSIM or POSCON which are FREE.
     
  • If you want to have just some traffic around without 100% accurate traffic and flight plans, you wish to have something that is just plug and play and use the default or 3rd party ATC Interaction (for example PROATC-X) then UTL, MT6 or Just Flight Traffic Global (when is finished) are your options.
     
  • If you want to have really up to date real world traffic but you don't like flying online, then real Flight Plans injected to your simulator is the way to go in which case PSXseeconTraffic is the one to use, however be aware you need to listen to real live ATC to be able to adapt to what is happening with the traffic as the AI traffic around you will not adapt to what you are doing, you will also not receive authorisation to land, take off, etc. as you will be just joining and seeing what is happening in the real world ATC, no all parts of the world offer Real ATC streaming which sometimes can be problematic.

    Lorby also has a freeware that injects traffic from real world into the sim, however he has stated several times that it works better to spot traffic around airports rather than to use it as an AI traffic tool, but some users use it and are happy with it.

    Another alternative is to generate the traffic yourself using real world time tables, this takes a lot of time and effort but a lot of people enjoy this, for this you need to acquire AI models with updated repaints, create the flight plans and compile them into traffic files (.BGL) the AIG forum is the place to go to get started, be aware this is very time consuming.. but also very addictive!, the reward is that you will get as close as posible to real world time tables and still have default ATC or 3rd party ATC interaction if this is what rocks your boat.

As you can see the ammount of possibilities is vast, it just depend of what you are looking for.

All the best,
Simbol

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I want the one you're working on Simbol. 😂

Mark

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Just now, newtie said:

I want the one you're working on Simbol. 😂

Mark

Hehe I am sure you do, mine will just complement the default ATC ESP Engine and / or integrate with 3rd party ATC Programs :wink:

S.

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OK-just don't make me buy a beta release.

Ain't doin' THAT anymore. 😁

Mark

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35 minutes ago, newtie said:

OK-just don't make me buy a beta release.

Ain't doin' THAT anymore. 😁

Mark

No worries, I don't work this way, in hence why I don't promise release dates and I run profesional beta testing for my software.

The downside is that you will need to wait, be patient until it is ready and there is nothing you can do to rush me :tongue:, the plus side is you get a product that is ready and works :wink:.

Regards,
S.

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