August 14, 20187 yr Commercial Member Let me try and get some theory behind this: FFTF set in the cfg alters the ratio of processing frames to loading data - left out of the cfg FFTF assumes around 0.3. We can see this in the graphs below. Remember that data requirements to actually build a frame mean FFTF won't drop below or rise above whatever is achievable at the time irrespective of setting because at least some of each side of the ratio must be completed at all times in order to render the scene. The sim tries to maintain a "constant fps" irrespective of available data, hence we see blurriness when the data is not fully loaded in time because it gets on with drawing the frame regardless. So let's look at that a bit closer: When I refer to a 'constant fps' I mean this is the rate maintainable for the current settings on the hardware if you will. For example; we can add shadows on that setting and fps goes down accordingly, we can reduce resolution on that kit and fps rises accordingly. In other words fps is constant. So there is always a theoretical rate available and there's always some of each side of the ratio completed whether we set unlimited or fixed. In fact fixed or locked fps similar to Unlimited VSync=Off gets on with the next frame right away (up till the buffer is filled) and uses up all the processing it can usually unless the system is very little taxed. Setting fixed or locked is not a simple limit since it builds look ahead frames which have to be replenished after any wobble in the flow. Setting Unlimited + VSync=On instructs the GPU to target frame output for the monitor refresh. Only this way can the system be reliably 'held back'. So I can set FFTF in the cfg and by utilising the Unlimited + VSync=Off setting I can make the following graphs which show the background task taking longer with FFTF=0.1 and completing more quickly at FFTF=0.9 - fps remains almost constant. The graphs of no cfg setting and FFTF=0.3 show similar results proving the manual to be correct. Following the graphs I have included an excerpt from my site that explains FFTF in a little more detail: "fps provided by the sim is the result of Performance Available. Changing FFTF does not change fps, it only alters the background loading performance. fps changes are the result of unavailable throughput. When the system has available throughput we notice that the fps doesn't change (fps is always subject to some alteration with any change including a 1 pixel wider view). Smoothness within the sim changes if we alter the background process ratios with FFTF depending on where we are within scenery - fps changes readily only when the system is already at the limit. When near to the ground we have less of a view to the horizon, FFTF can be set slightly lower to reduce the proportion of loading new scenery to other background tasks. It does not alter the ratio to rendering time. The simulator always tries to maintain the same fps. Setting FFTF lower can ignore scenery out of view as it is further away, nearby objects are rendered earlier so reducing the loading proportion results in scenery further away rendered later. If in this case fps rises it's because the system is already at its peak before changing the value." Steve Waite: Engineer at codelegend.com
August 14, 20187 yr Commercial Member Interesting thread....so could increasing the FFTF help get rid of blurries? I’m I understanding it correctly? Discord | YouTube | iFly Schedules 34" Odyssey OLED G8 175Hz | 3440X1440 | AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D | PNY VERTO OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16 GB | G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 | Asus ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI ATX AM5 | Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 | ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler | Fractal Design North XL ATX Full Tower Case
August 14, 20187 yr 24 minutes ago, Le Français said: Interesting thread....so could increasing the FFTF help get rid of blurries? I’m I understanding it correctly? IT does. I bought Dynamic FFTF and set it to 4500 feet 0,4 and 0feet at 0,01 and the blurry testing KLAX area are gone. I run UNLIMITED@25HZ VSync on Not sure about autogen load though but the app does work. Thanks Michael Moe Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Michael Moe Michael Moe
August 14, 20187 yr 5 hours ago, Michael Moe said: IT does. I bought Dynamic FFTF and set it to 4500 feet 0,4 and 0feet at 0,01 and the blurry testing KLAX area are gone. I run UNLIMITED@25HZ VSync on Not sure about autogen load though but the app does work. Thanks Michael Moe Michael is correct. When making flights I always use it . Max fps on the ground with heavy airports and more time for terrain loading up in the air... 5950x3d 5.4-5.7 GHz - Asus ROG 870 Crosshair Apex - GSkill Neo 2x 24 Gb 6000 mhz / cas 26 - MSI RTX 5090 Gaming Trio OC - 1x SSD M2 6000 2TB - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 1Tb - Corsair 5400 case - Corsair 360 liquid cooling set - 3x 75’ TCL tv. 13600 6 cores @ 5.1 GHz / 8 cores @ 4.0 GHz (hypterthreading on) - Asus ROG Strix Gaming D - GSkill Trident 4x Gb 3200 MHz cas 15 - Asus TUF RTX 4080 16 Gb - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 2TB - 2x Sata 600 SSD 500 Mb - Corsair D4000 Airflow case - NXT Krajen Z63 AIO liquide cooling - FOV : 200 degrees My flightsim vids : https://www.youtube.com/user/fswidesim/videos?shelf_id=0&sort=dd&view=0
August 14, 20187 yr A quick question. Why 0,4 and not 0,33? What is the benefit to increase this value and what is the max? - PC Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D // Asus ROG Crosshair X870E HERO // 2x32Gb Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5 6000MT/s CL30 // ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4090 OC Edition // 4Tb Corsair NVMe M.2 MP600 // Corsair 1600W PSU Samsung Odyssey Arc 55" curved 165 Hz monitor. - Simulator Hardware: VIRPIL Constellation Alpha Prime + VIRPIL VPC Universal Control Panel - #3 + MOZA AY210 Force Feedback Yoke + WINWING URSA MINOR 32 Throttle & PAC Metal + WINWING SKYWALKER Metal Rudder Pedals + WINWING Airbus FCU & EFIS + WINWING Boeing 3N PAP + WINWING MCDU-32 + WINWING PFP-4 + WINWING PFP 3-N + WINWING PFP-7.
August 14, 20187 yr 1 hour ago, David Roch said: A quick question. Why 0,4 and not 0,33? What is the benefit to increase this value and what is the max? The higher the value the more time for terrain loading . However, less time for achieving high fps... Max ? Probably 0.99 , but then your framerate is at the lowest point. 5950x3d 5.4-5.7 GHz - Asus ROG 870 Crosshair Apex - GSkill Neo 2x 24 Gb 6000 mhz / cas 26 - MSI RTX 5090 Gaming Trio OC - 1x SSD M2 6000 2TB - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 1Tb - Corsair 5400 case - Corsair 360 liquid cooling set - 3x 75’ TCL tv. 13600 6 cores @ 5.1 GHz / 8 cores @ 4.0 GHz (hypterthreading on) - Asus ROG Strix Gaming D - GSkill Trident 4x Gb 3200 MHz cas 15 - Asus TUF RTX 4080 16 Gb - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 2TB - 2x Sata 600 SSD 500 Mb - Corsair D4000 Airflow case - NXT Krajen Z63 AIO liquide cooling - FOV : 200 degrees My flightsim vids : https://www.youtube.com/user/fswidesim/videos?shelf_id=0&sort=dd&view=0
August 14, 20187 yr Crystal clear, thanks Gerard! - PC Hardware: AMD Ryzen 9 9950X3D // Asus ROG Crosshair X870E HERO // 2x32Gb Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5 6000MT/s CL30 // ASUS ROG Strix GeForce RTX 4090 OC Edition // 4Tb Corsair NVMe M.2 MP600 // Corsair 1600W PSU Samsung Odyssey Arc 55" curved 165 Hz monitor. - Simulator Hardware: VIRPIL Constellation Alpha Prime + VIRPIL VPC Universal Control Panel - #3 + MOZA AY210 Force Feedback Yoke + WINWING URSA MINOR 32 Throttle & PAC Metal + WINWING SKYWALKER Metal Rudder Pedals + WINWING Airbus FCU & EFIS + WINWING Boeing 3N PAP + WINWING MCDU-32 + WINWING PFP-4 + WINWING PFP 3-N + WINWING PFP-7.
August 14, 20187 yr Commercial Member So that program is really worth it? Discord | YouTube | iFly Schedules 34" Odyssey OLED G8 175Hz | 3440X1440 | AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D | PNY VERTO OC GeForce RTX 4070 Ti SUPER 16 GB | G.Skill Flare X5 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-6000 CL30 | Asus ROG STRIX B650E-F GAMING WIFI ATX AM5 | Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 | ARCTIC Liquid Freezer III 56.3 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler | Fractal Design North XL ATX Full Tower Case
August 14, 20187 yr 1 hour ago, David Roch said: Crystal clear, thanks Gerard! Not at all, it is still an open question if the sim can recover from the autogen loss when using the FFTF Dynamic Tool. Rob did his test with a blank P3D, no addons installed. The open question is: if you use FFTF with a value below 0.33 while taking off, then 0.33 or more when above 4000ft, will this still result in proper autogen drawing after some miles and minutes or is the autogen drawing initially hampered by the low FFTF value and never recovers? Can you shed some light, Gerard? Greetings, Chris AMD Ryzen 7 9800X3D, 2x32GB DDR5 6000MT/s RAM, MSI RTX 4090 Ventus 3X, Windows 11 Home, MSFS2024
August 14, 20187 yr 14 minutes ago, AnkH said: Not at all, it is still an open question if the sim can recover from the autogen loss when using the FFTF Dynamic Tool. Rob did his test with a blank P3D, no addons installed. The open question is: if you use FFTF with a value below 0.33 while taking off, then 0.33 or more when above 4000ft, will this still result in proper autogen drawing after some miles and minutes or is the autogen drawing initially hampered by the low FFTF value and never recovers? Can you shed some light, Gerard? You can set the FFTF value to your own system. Eg 0.01 on the ground and 0.4 at 2000 ft and above. Then your will have a longer terrain loading time whn flying low, but at the cost of max fps. However, you probably would be away from that heavy airport with AI traffic anyway, so the framerate would op up. 5950x3d 5.4-5.7 GHz - Asus ROG 870 Crosshair Apex - GSkill Neo 2x 24 Gb 6000 mhz / cas 26 - MSI RTX 5090 Gaming Trio OC - 1x SSD M2 6000 2TB - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 1Tb - Corsair 5400 case - Corsair 360 liquid cooling set - 3x 75’ TCL tv. 13600 6 cores @ 5.1 GHz / 8 cores @ 4.0 GHz (hypterthreading on) - Asus ROG Strix Gaming D - GSkill Trident 4x Gb 3200 MHz cas 15 - Asus TUF RTX 4080 16 Gb - 1x SSD M2 2800/1800 2TB - 2x Sata 600 SSD 500 Mb - Corsair D4000 Airflow case - NXT Krajen Z63 AIO liquide cooling - FOV : 200 degrees My flightsim vids : https://www.youtube.com/user/fswidesim/videos?shelf_id=0&sort=dd&view=0
August 14, 20187 yr 41 minutes ago, Chris Bell said: 2 hours ago, GSalden said: Max ? Probably 0.99 , 4.0 Correct. As stated a few times before, FFTF doesn't range from 0 to 1, but rather from some small number (0.01) to integer values like 1, 2 or even 4. Since FFTF only a limit, there are diminishing returns of setting FFTF at an integer value, as there may never be such a high demand in the sim for scenery texture loading. Hence, such a high value will have no effect. As Gerard has stated, it's best to set the high FFTF value at a number that is just above the default (0.33) and then see whether that improves matters. I originally ran FFTF Dynamic in a range of 0.01 to 0.4, but after experimenting, I have been using 0.2 to 0.65 and 7,000 AGL. Each setup will need its own experimentation to see whether autogen and texture loading starts noticeably lagging. All this "goodness" (AA, mipmapped textures, model multiple LODs, "the blurries", autogen not loading, etc.) is left over from the ACES team trying to keep FSX usable even when the hardware is stressed. Without these shortcuts, portions of the screen would end up rendering as black. With these tricks, at least the sim continues to look vaguely unobjectionable. In contrast, LR (although they use some of the same time-honored tricks) just set a lower FPS limit of 20. When that is breached, XP11 goes into "slow motion mode": https://www.x-plane.com/kb/the-simulators-measurement-of-time-is-slow/ Edited August 14, 20187 yr by jabloomf1230
August 14, 20187 yr 27 minutes ago, jabloomf1230 said: I originally ran FFTF Dynamic in a range of 0.01 to 0.4, but after experimenting, I have been using 0.2 to 0.65 and 7,000 AGL. Each setup will need its own experimentation to see whether autogen and texture loading starts noticeably lagging. And what are your TFR and VSYNC settings in P3Dv4 with the above? Thanks.
August 14, 20187 yr 15 hours ago, Nyxx said: I run locked at 26, plus FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.01 for FSL and locked at 31, plus FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.01 and I get perfect texture loading and no stutters. VS and TB ON, my refeash is 120hz. So it runs at 24 for FSL and 30 for PMDG. What does the P3Dv4 science say about the above aproach? Doesn't FIBER_FRAME_TIME_FRACTION=0.01 negate TFR=26 locked fps benefit? Thanks. Edited August 14, 20187 yr by Dirk98
August 14, 20187 yr 28 minutes ago, Dirk98 said: And what are your TFR and VSYNC settings in P3Dv4 with the above? Thanks. FFTF Dynamic also has a frame rate range target, but in Prepar3d.cfg, the frame rate limit is set to 32. Vsync is on, but with a 60Hz monitor, I've never seen any difference, either on or off.
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