This might be an odd question to ask on this forum but does anyone know if there are any other forums, apart from the two official ones, that have a lively discussion of Aerofly FS 2? 

I wouldn’t say “lively” but Aerosoft have this one

http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/forum/851-all-aerofly-fs2-support/

there is also a forum on the steam community pages. 

I guess you probably mean "unbiased/uncensored" as opposed to lively :). Apart from the official iPacs forum where criticism isn't taken lightly, you're probably out of luck as there doesn't seem to be any big user groups outside of their own forums.

There is an aerofly Facebook page that's completely independent.

I don't think it's Lively in the sense that you want. It's mostly just users sharing videos and pictures.

We could try to make this one more lively. 🙂

47 minutes ago, GHarrall said:

there is also a forum on the steam community pages. 

That's one of the two official ones. 😉

20 minutes ago, tonywob said:

I guess you probably mean "unbiased/uncensored" as opposed to lively :). Apart from the official iPacs forum where criticism isn't taken lightly, you're probably out of luck as there doesn't seem to be any big user groups outside of their own forums.

Haha, well, I didn't want to say it myself but yes... 😉 I also looked for more 'lively' places using Google but couldn't find any. Guess I am stuck with AVSIM then anyway LOL 😄 Problem also is of course that there isn't that much too talk about... I just have to get used to that because I like talking about my sims (check my amount of posts LOL)

1 hour ago, HiFlyer said:

There is an aerofly Facebook page that's completely independent.

Thanks, I'm not on Facebook, really, but I'll check it out anyway!

1 minute ago, Murmur said:

We could try to make this one more lively. 🙂

Yes, I tried that already... 😋 Again, maybe I am not really looking for a more lively forum but a more lively sim. 😎 You can't have one without the order, I guess.

I fear that too much talking will not do any significant change to the way Aerofly FS 2 is being developed. As we all are well aware of, Aerofly FS 2 is making a firm progress, but is rather slow, it's taking its time, and it's also an excellent simulator already. We should be patient and recognize that's the way it is.

On the other hand, IPACS should also get a good product sales rate, otherwise they'll lack the resources to finance a more aggressive development. In my opinion that's why IPACS is so over sensitive about criticism about their product in their forums. Sometimes that criticism is not positive for anyone.

Most people have two (and sometimes three) simulators. That's why I would recommend to anyone to enjoy Aerofly FS 2 together with your other simulator(s) and that way you should be the happiest guy in the world.

Cheers, Ed

44 minutes ago, edpatino said:

I fear that too much talking will not do any significant change to the way Aerofly FS 2 is being developed. As we all are well aware of, Aerofly FS 2 is making a firm progress, but is rather slow, it's taking its time, and it's also an excellent simulator already. We should be patient and recognize that's the way it is.

Couldn't agree more. While it looks enticing, both from a visual AND performance point of view, it's still a long way behind *insert generic sim of choice in here* in terms of addon capabilities, and dare I say it, realism.

1 hour ago, edpatino said:

On the other hand, IPACS should also get a good product sales rate, otherwise they'll lack the resources to finance a more aggressive development. In my opinion that's why IPACS is so over sensitive about criticism about their product in their forums. Sometimes that criticism is not positive for anyone.

 Most people have two (and sometimes three) simulators. That's why I would recommend to anyone to enjoy Aerofly FS 2 together with your other simulator(s) and that way you should be the happiest guy in the world.

 

Agreed. Which is why I stopped moaning entirely on the official forums. I can get carried away too much and too quickly whenever I am excited but also annoyed about something. 😉 But yes, sometimes criticism is not positive for anyone indeed... Sharing honest concerns is something else than simple bashing or being completely negative but sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Also on this forum I'm now trying to take a more positive stance. Although that's hard sometimes... 😉 

Jeroen,

Your kindness and long suffering is bursting out all over. I can see that if you actually said what you truly think and feel, your post would be deleted even here.

I speculate outcomes based on very plain facts and I get bashed over and over. I know my motives are truly pure.

Yes IPACS has a good product in AF2. It was in a class all by itself for a little while, but XP11 has proven to be very good in VR as well. P3D will eventually be as good at VR too, but this will mainly be when hardware can handle it, which is finally happening (5 GHz norm and getting faster, plus RTX next month).

There was and is a miscalculation on IPACS part, and unless the basics are released free or are extremely excellent and worth buying there is no way for AF2 to survive. The NL true earth scenery, for example, serves P3D users much better than AF2 users, because we have real weather, ATC, a huge library of aircraft to chose from, and any possibility of airports to fly from or to NL. On top of all that, P3D users can do a simple VFR flight using VR in P3D too. With AF2 you either remain in NL or maybe fly a VFR flight in a 737 from Switzerland - or will one fly a VFR flight from JFK? Same weather and not even a whisper from ATC?...LIMITATIONS (the key concept at hand)....boring x 100000000....🤮 Some (likely a few) will buy NL for both or all three, I get that , but for how long will they wait for ATC or real weather when they ALREADY have it (have had it for years!!!) in P3D.

IPACS deleting posts is a clear sign (proof somewhat) of their lack of confidence in their own product and business model. If sales were up and all was well, then they would welcome criticism as a means to possibly improve their greatness, or laugh at the fools. Yes, point out lies/misinformation, but to simply delete is proof of great weakness and a sign of trouble. ☠️ 

If MS Flight, DTG FSW, Flight Unlimited, Fly!, and Pro Pilot (all fine products/concepts/attempts - but again, too limited), were still alive, then AF2 would be a shining success, but flight simmers as a whole do not tolerate limitations (paying for basics all over again and being limited to simplistic VFR sightseeing).

The likes of PMDG, Hi Fi, Flightbeam, Orbx (in FSX/P3D), A2A, FS2Crew, FSDT, etc., and their success, is proof of what flight simmers as a whole support.  🤑

IPACS can have all the time they want, money is a whole other matter.🖖

Competition is not all what it is said to be, when the competition is not really competing.👨‍🎓  

Once again, for the record ---- I want IPACS to succeed.

Some good points you've got there, Paul. You are making it hard for me to not start moaning again LOL 😎😜

Please ignore trolls like him. Just take pity and move forward.. 🙂

23 minutes ago, Murmur said:

Please ignore trolls like him. Just take pity and move forward.. 🙂

Well, actually, I don't think Paul is a troll. He is not entirely right in all aspects imho but well, who is. 😉 For instance, unlike him I do find TrueEarth Netherlands in AFS2 a LOT more fun than in P3D. Even without weather and ATC etc. As always it does depend on what you want from a sim. Whenever I want weather and ATC I fire up P3D and fly the Majestic Q400. But for sightseeing VFR flights AFS2 can't be beaten right now because of its performance. I also love how the sun really shines in AFS2 (which it never does in P3D). But that's just my opinion. I do agree with a lot of points Paul makes and I had to call myself a troll too (every now and then 😎 ) if I'd call Paul a troll LOL so no, not a troll.

I would add, Paul was among a small minority openly predicting FSW to fail. There was a huge cround calling him not only a troll but worse, wanting him to be excluded from fora etc. 

In the end it was him, not the crowd being right.

Sometimes you get an impression when things go South, not even mainly from technical facts but from the way a project is maintained (and communicated). 

And I hope no one will claim Paul and a couple of others were responsible for FSW to fail.

Personally, I like a lot about AeroflyFS2 and use it, but having the 9 Saitek FIPs on my hardware panel (working in P3D, XP and even FSW)) sitting idle takes away quite some fun for me. And this would certainly have been a sub-project to outsource a year ago.

Kind regards, Michael

 

Edited August 23, 20187 yr by pmb

12 hours ago, pmb said:

I would add, Paul was among a small minority openly predicting FSW to fail. There was a huge cround calling him not only a troll but worse, wanting him to be excluded from fora etc. 

In the end it was him, not the crowd being right.

To me this is a weird conclusion. 

If I was new to flight simulation - I would investigate which simulator I should choose. An old simulator that is no longer being further developed - or a whole new one that just started development.

If I read repeatedly that this new simulator is just crap that is not going to survive - do you think I then had chosen this? Maybe not?

Would it be positive for the development of the new simulator that I instead bought the old one? I do not think so. And if ever more people are affected to lose faith in this new simulator - the possibility of failure will increase. Do you agree?

All economics are governed by psychology. 

Is it then positive for the development of new simulators like FSW or Aerofly FS2 - that some individuals complain again and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, .... etc. - that this simulator is rubbish and will not survive?

How are new buyers influenced by this repetitive message?

Why do you think that IPACS earlier this month wrote on its own website (and "humbled themselves"), quote:  - "We need that kind of support so that we can keep moving Aerofly forward. Most of the negative reviews posted on Steam were inaccurate or simply from users that purposely want to hurt our product. This makes it hard for us to keep momentum."

Exactly !!!!

The important keyword: - "This makes it hard for us to keep momentum."

FSW was condemned and disappeared. Now it's Aerofly FS2 to be removed. Why?
I know why. Do you?

"And with shouts of joy he cries out: - Yes, I was right. This simulator is luckily dead now."

Edited August 24, 20187 yr by torium