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killairbus

Am I too conservative?

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I tend to file my flight plans with enough fuel to reach my alternate that's above my reserves. 

Am I too conservative with this? Is it ok to divert and land with some of my reserve fuel used?

-Angelo Busato 


Angelo Busato

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4 minutes ago, killairbus said:

Am I too conservative with this?

Yes and no...

You're somewhat confusing the concept of reserves. The overall concept of reserves includes the fuel you'd need for a number of things, to include getting to your alternate. For this reason, you will by the nature of the plan and the purpose of that fuel, use some of your reserves.

8 minutes ago, killairbus said:

Is it ok to divert and land with some of my reserve fuel used?

This is a flight plan I used the other day:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/a0a1wg8u9dbe991/KSEAEDDF_PDF_1546019088.pdf?dl=0

There is a breakdown for the fuel on the first page:

TRIP            FRA  87748   0935
CONT 5%               4387   0029
ALTN            ERF   5182   0039
FINRES                  3899   0030

What I consider my reserves are the last three lines, combined. Note that ALTN is part of that. If you were to divert, it is assumed that you'd use this fuel to get there.

Naturally, given the additional lines of CONT and FINRES, it is expected (and desired) that you'd be able to divert and land with a decent amount left (even within your reserve fuel).

More here: https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Fuel_-_Flight_Planning_Definitions

 


Kyle Rodgers

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Posted (edited)

You shouldn't really be touching your FINRES 30 min final reserve, if you start eating in to that you declare a fuel emergency and land ASAP!

Generally I plan for Trip fuel + contingency (5% of trip) + alternate/holding (from dest. to furthest chosen altn.) + final reserve (30 mins holding at 1500 ft AGL at destination).

Edited by ckyliu

ckyliu, proud supporter of ViaIntercity.com. Find my spec and settings in "About me" on my profile.

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56 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

This is a flight plan I used the other day

Dear Kyle, Hello, I don't mean to hijack this thread, but may I ask which Seattle Scenery you use? thanks in advance.

Best Regards.


Saman Mahdi Abadi 
there is absolute logic in pure illogic ! S.M.A
B1.1 Mechanic

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29 minutes ago, Samany69 said:

I don't mean to hijack this thread, but may I ask which Seattle Scenery you use? thanks in advance.

90% sure it's the Drzewiecki scenery.

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Kyle Rodgers

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4 minutes ago, scandinavian13 said:

90% sure it's the Drzewiecki scenery.

thank you So much. ❤️😄 


Saman Mahdi Abadi 
there is absolute logic in pure illogic ! S.M.A
B1.1 Mechanic

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2 hours ago, ckyliu said:

You shouldn't really be touching your FINRES 30 min final reserve, if you start eating in to that you declare a fuel emergency and land ASAP!

Generally I plan for Trip fuel + contingency (5% of trip) + alternate/holding (from dest. to furthest chosen altn.) + final reserve (30 mins holding at 1500 ft AGL at destination).

Please note forum rules ask that we sign our full names here.

This is absolutely false, at least in the FAA jurisdiction.  The FARs require specific reserves depending on fuel policy but they do not require that there be any fuel remaining when you land.

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Dan Downs KCRP

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41 minutes ago, downscc said:

This is absolutely false, at least in the FAA jurisdiction.  The FARs require specific reserves depending on fuel policy but they do not require that there be any fuel remaining when you land.

I realize this is splitting hairs but, the rules are different depending on your type of flight.

"Interpretation is unambiguous under VFR conditions where FAR 91.151 says that no pilot can begin a flight unless consideration of wind and weather will allow the flight to reach the planned destination with enough fuel to cruise for 30 minutes at a normal power setting, or 45 minutes at night. A literal reading of FAR 91.151 indicates that running out of gas is not against the rules so long as your preflight plan was complete and accurate based on the winds aloft forecast. If the wind or weather forecasts are wrong, there is apparently no legal obligation under that rule to land and buy more fuel. Of course, FAR 91.13 appears to forbid running out of fuel, because that rule bans all "careless or reckless operation."

However...

FAR 91.167, the rule that governs fuel requirements in IFR conditions, seems to require a pilot to land short of the planned destination if fuel runs low. This rule says "no person may operate a civil aircraft in IFR conditions unless it carries enough fuel" to complete the flight and land with enough fuel for 45 minutes of normal cruise. If an alternate airport is required, which is determined by the forecast weather at the destination, then the 45 minutes of fuel must remain upon reaching the alternative.

Source and all credit to:

FLYING

The Rules and Fuel.  Mac translates the FARs and tells what they mean to pilots when it comes to the murky issue of required fuel.

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Marc Boucher

 

  

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1 minute ago, Weasle said:

I realize this is splitting hairs but, the rules are different depending on your type of flight.

True...but I will split the hair further and note that there is not a single reg in the book that prescribes that you must declare an emergency, regardless of situation. That was the topic in question, and not the differences between VFR and IFR. Given the nature of our aircraft, they're all going IFR anyway.


Kyle Rodgers

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Posted (edited)

FAA fuel requirements are different from EASA fuel requirements. In Europe you go down to 3% cont. and ICAO fuel is also different.

Edited by ph-cxz

Koen Meier

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Another "not to hijack the thread here" - but Kyle (or anyone else): which OFP template is that? 


William Ezzell

KATL

 

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1 minute ago, wde12 said:

Another "not to hijack the thread here" - but Kyle (or anyone else): which OFP template is that? 

Standard simbrief one I guess.


Koen Meier

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2 minutes ago, wde12 said:

Another "not to hijack the thread here" - but Kyle (or anyone else): which OFP template is that? 

LIDO, which is the default, I think.


Kyle Rodgers

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32 minutes ago, ph-cxz said:

FAA fuel requirements are different from EASA fuel requirements. In Europe you go down to 3% cont. and ICAO fuel is also different.

And if you REALLY want to throw a wrench into the works, you have two different FAA rules, depending on whether it's a domestic flight or a flag flight.

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Captain Kevin

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Air Kevin 124 heavy, wind calm, runway 4 left, cleared for take-off.

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