Jim Young

Another Airline Crash

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What a horrible tragedy! Prayers offered for the victims and survivors, as well as their loved ones.

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It's absolutely amazing that they were able to get back to the airport and get the aircraft on the ground in one piece.

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That title needs to be chsnged. I'm sorry but it could be read in two very different ways. Lol

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2 minutes ago, ahsmatt7 said:

That title needs to be chsnged. I'm sorry but it could be read in two very different ways. Lol

Well, either way it is read is correct, IMNSHO... :laugh:

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It was sad to hear of this crash, Russian aviation has always been admirable, I was happy to read that some did survive this crash.  We sometimes get complacent when we go a while without crashes, and then they seem to come upon us suddenly.  Aviation in general worldwide has a good safety record which is amazing given the high number of parts in an aircraft, and the complexity of aircraft systems and engines.  I have flown as a passenger within days of major accidents, like the one in Tenerife, without worry about what would happen to me.  I have been on four aircraft that had near fatal issues, but they all survived their crisis with the passengers unharmed and either at their destination or in one instance, when our port engine blew on startup in Bozeman, at the origin.  I celebrate aviation and try to remember in accidents such as these, the pax and crew and ground crew involved have had lives worth remembering, and are always the true story of aviation.

John

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Video shows the airline was not on fire until it landed hard. It porpoised and touched down very hard the second time and then erupted in flames. I wonder if the pilots were having serious control issues. A terrible tragedy.

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Survivors are saying that the plane was struck by lightning - this is usually not an issue. Time will tell.

I quote from a BBC article. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-48171392

Quote

One passenger who survived the crash, Petr Egorov, was quoted by the Komsomolskaya Pravda daily newspaper as saying that the flight "had just taken off and the aircraft was hit by lightning", adding: "The landing was rough - I almost passed out from fear."

 

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Posted (edited)

An unnamed source (?) is reported to claim debris found its way into one of the engines as a result of the extremely hard touch down and that engine caught on fire which set the rear section of the aircraft on fire.

A short-circuit in a cable causing an 'electrical' fire has also been suggested by aviation experts which could also account for the loss of communication devices.

Either way, that aircraft seemed almost out of control on landing, making control issues possible. The captain has been cited to have said the landing was at normal speed and "by the book". No mention of control issues from his side so far.

Early accounts. Let's see what the investigation finds.

Edited by threegreen

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Posted (edited)

Latest BBC News report states pilots are saying aircraft struck by lightning. That is more credible than from pax.

The strike caused loss of instruments and with an immediate return for landing it was clearly far too heavy. Hence the bounced landing and a spark will have ignited the fuel.

In all honesty for anyone to escape that is down to pilot skill. Must have been terrifying.

I agree that the title is confusing. Nothing horrible about Russian airline. 

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

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4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

In all honesty for anyone to escape that is down to pilot skill.

And some of the lives that had been given a chance to survive may have been lost due to passengers blocking the aisle during evacuation in order to retrieve their luggage, according to witnesses, cutting off the way for passengers in the back. Think about that. Underwear and laptop survived.

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Good point about the factor of the aircraft being overweight for the landing.

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Is it possible to correct the title of the thread? There is nothing horrible about the airline or the aircraft involved in this crash. The accident itself is of course horrible and tragic, my heart goes out to all involved....

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3 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

That title needs to be chsnged. I'm sorry but it could be read in two very different ways. Lol

Before I saw your post, I was looking at the title and saw it read something like a "horrible airliner" crashes.  First time I ever made a grammatical error...  Thanks!

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Just heard many of the passengers were trying to get their overhead baggage and a major reason why many in the rear of the aircraft died.

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OMG

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27 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

Just heard many of the passengers were trying to get their overhead baggage and a major reason why many in the rear of the aircraft died.

Reminds me of something similar at a US airport a couple of years ago when an aircraft caught fire. Human nature.

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Posted (edited)

mate of mine works for Air Bridge Cargo / Volga  and constantly tells me horror stories about Russian Safety Standards and the russian way of doing things.

they regulary have to pull lumps of concrete out of their tires from the crappy runway in SVO, the aircraft all fly amount with fudged paperwork relating to DMIs , MELS and CRASS's they put them in for checks as little as possible, they are constantly getting hit by highloaders,tugs and cherry pickers and pretending it doesnt happen ,  and the crew dont really have a proper FTL or FRMS system, they call them whenever they want for whatever duty they want.

When he raises safety issues they either tell him to get another job or stop being RussianPhobic.  Heres desperate to leave  

Edited by tooting

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I didn't want to add to this thread initially but since tooting raised the issue, the Sukhoi Superjet has been plagued with structural issues since its introduction. The company that designed it was also cited for hiring engineers with fake credentials.

https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/incidents/the-troubled-history-of-russias-sukhoi-superjet/news-story/52414ae381da16711fa2317a26703bad

That link is not behind a paywall like similar stories.

Maybe someone else can answer this. I always believed that commercial airliners were somewhat immune to lightning strikes. Apparently this is not the case. Second, was the aircraft carrying a full load of fuel? That probably didn't help the situation either due to both the weight and the fire risk.

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9 hours ago, Jim Young said:

Just heard many of the passengers were trying to get their overhead baggage and a major reason why many in the rear of the aircraft died.

If you've ever been in a traffic jam on a Moscow highway, you've witnessed this mind set.  Last time I was there it seemed like about every 10th car on the road had a flashing blue light on it signifying either "this is an emergency vehicle" or "I'm someone special" (mostly the latter), and those vehicles were just as caught up in the jam as everyone else...nobody gave quarter to anyone else, except maybe at gunpoint. 

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1 hour ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I always believed that commercial airliners were somewhat immune to lightning strikes

They mostly are, which is why I don't particularly believe that version of events.

Having said that, this immunity depends on there being a low-resistance path for the current through the aircraft structure, the currents involved are enormous and it only takes a small resistance to create large electric fields and consequent problems.  This has been made harder with the advent of composite components, the composites themselves are normally made conducting but bonding to the remainder of the structure now becomes critical.  It's a problem that gets worse with age (not a factor in this case) but may also be the result of bad workmanship.

 

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9 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Reminds me of something similar at a US airport a couple of years ago when an aircraft caught fire. Human nature.

Yes, I thought of that BA 777 at Las Vegas that caught fire and pax could be seen wheeling their bags across the tarmac.

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10 hours ago, charliearon said:

They seem to be dropping out of the sky like candy from a busted piñata!  Not a good week for the aviation industry:blink:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/fourteen-dead-after-private-jet-crashes-between-las-vegas-and-mexico/ar-AAAYVeZ?li=BBnb7Kz

 

The picture of the jet looks like it was parked and then set on fire. Looks like it was an attempt at a landing as the bits are still together

 

https://www.9news.com.au/world/news-world-thirteen-feared-dead-after-las-vegas-flight-crashes/3cb69100-5924-43dd-bb5c-956155e228e5

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1 hour ago, lzamm said:

They mostly are, which is why I don't particularly believe that version of events.

Having said that, this immunity depends on there being a low-resistance path for the current through the aircraft structure, the currents involved are enormous and it only takes a small resistance to create large electric fields and consequent problems.  This has been made harder with the advent of composite components, the composites themselves are normally made conducting but bonding to the remainder of the structure now becomes critical.  It's a problem that gets worse with age (not a factor in this case) but may also be the result of bad workmanship.

 

ours get hit everyday at my airline its a ruse .  your never get a russian admitting their a/c is crappy

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