Overweight landings are done semi-frequently without incident on the types I mentioned, I think the issue here is far more than just being a bit overweight. It would appear the aircraft was either mishandled (potentially because of systems issues, not necessarily the crews fault) or is structurally deficient.

With the electrical problems from the lightning strike, not only could they have been making the approach with no regular flight displays, but there may well have been degraded controls or outages such as no flaps. So making an approach with limited instrumentation, abnormal configuration, overweight, high speed and degraded controls, it is not surprising that they could have mishandled the plane into a high bounce. But once in that kind of a bounce, you are supposed to initiate a go around no matter what kind of instruments you’re on. Else you risk breaking the plane apart.

4 hours ago, Jim Young said:

For the souls in the rear of the aircraft, I feel sorry for their loss.  One was a young American.  It was likely due to the fact the passengers in the front were trying to get their luggage (and some did)..  Think airlines need to think about having an electronic lock to be activated in accidents like this.

 

 the defib, oxygen bottles, first aid kits, doctors boxes etc etc are sometimes in the overheads depending on a/c thats why there's a height restriction on Cabin Crew to be able to get the epuipment out the overheads if that's where its stowed. 

Not to mention the cabin crew put their stuff in them too.  If you had locks so our cabin crew couldn't get their iphones out, for an insta snap with a drugged lion 🦁 in joburg, that alone would cause world war 3 at my place, let alone warming their shoes in the ovens in the winter in jfk, bos, iad and ewr which they keep doing even though we've told them a zillion times not too 

 

Edited May 7, 20197 yr by tooting

I see that one article brings up a reliability issue of the Superjet. Perhaps Sukhoi should stick to making military jet fighter/bombers and single seat aerobatic aircraft. They seem to be rather good at getting those right. 

If a passsenger or passengers prevent timely exit by retrieving luggage and refuse to listen to flight attendants, then i think stiff four figure fines and/ or prison time is needed. Sure countries will have different policies, but really becoming a problem and growing from what i read. Hate to think what would happen if fire does break out, and few passengers break their duty free alcohol bottles. That and drop their carry on and trip in the aisle.

From the AV Herald:

"On May 6th 2019 Roaviatsia (Russia's CAA) reported a static atmospheric discharge at about 2100 meters (6900 feet MSL) resulted in the failure of the radios and other equipment including the autopilot. The crew returned to Sheremetyevo squawking loss of radio contact, subsequently emergency. While landing on runway 24L the aircraft experienced a rough landing, bounces and partial destruction of the aircraft. Following the 4th touch down fire broke out at the tail section of the aircraft and the aircraft veered left off the runway coming to a stop between taxiways A2 and A3. The aircraft burned partially out, there were fatalities and injuries."

The human race is quite selfish, with just a thin veneer of civilised society holding it together. Most of us on here would like to think that we would evacuate a stricken plane in a timely manner, myself included. However, I've not been in that situation. Would I have the common sense to leave that valuable trinket in the hand luggage where it is? I would hope that common sense would kick in and tell me yes. I would hope that I do what I can to assist my family members if any are travelling with me.

Heck, it would be nice if we get chance to help others. Then again evacuating in a timely manner will help others still on the plane..

7 hours ago, Christopher Low said:

Is it true that some of the passengers at the front of the aircraft were trying to get their hand luggage out? If so, that is utterly disgraceful. The entire rear of the plane on fire, and some idiots at the front are more concerned with saving their bags??

Videos after the crash showed at least two carrying large bags after they slide down the chute.  But, as Bob Scott (w6kd) stated, it is part of human nature.

3 hours ago, tooting said:

the defib, oxygen bottles, first aid kits, doctors boxes etc etc are sometimes in the overheads depending on a/c

They are putting life saving equipment like the defip and oxygen in the overhead bins?  How do they get it if passengers throw their luggage on top of it?

55 minutes ago, Jim Young said:

They are putting life saving equipment like the defip and oxygen in the overhead bins?  How do they get it if passengers throw their luggage on top of it?

Depends on the aircraft.  But yes they do theres normally a partition in the locker.  I'll get you an equipment diagram next week to show you. 

One of The 2 defibs on our 747s for example  is at back by the l5 door, thats why we have a 5ft 2 minimum limit on height, or you can't get it down from the stowage. 

The fsms keep bollocking the new kids for putting handbags on top of the oxygen bottles in the lockers for example 

It's a long time since I was crew... But I remember the stuff In the overheads

Edited May 7, 20197 yr by tooting

Just seen this on youtube. Well said..

 

In regards to people carrying luggage this report says there were passengers seen carrying their luggage.  As far as the cause, they are looking at three possibilities - inexperienced pilots (where have I heard that before?), equipment failure, and bad weather.  Not an expert but I would suspect all three.  If there was equipment failure, the altimeter probably failed and he had to guess his altitude.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-plane-fire-american-killed-jeremy-books

10 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

Just seen this on youtube. Well said..

Video was great Mark!

1 hour ago, Jim Young said:

In regards to people carrying luggage this report says there were passengers seen carrying their luggage.  As far as the cause, they are looking at three possibilities - inexperienced pilots (where have I heard that before?), equipment failure, and bad weather.  Not an expert but I would suspect all three.  If there was equipment failure, the altimeter probably failed and he had to guess his altitude.

https://www.foxnews.com/world/russia-plane-fire-american-killed-jeremy-books

this gets covered in CRM the social condtioning of people and reasoning for getting bags. 

On a separate note but somewhat related I think if you took away social media from 16-30 year olds I think the suicide rate amonst females would rocket due to the lack of dopamine.  Hence the need for getting the ipad or the designer handbag from the overhead locker       

on another side note I got into avation just a few monthhs after this happened in 1999.  Its used as a case study for quite a few CRM courses Ive been on still to this day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia_Airways_Flight_226A

The cabin crew actually on that got back on that a/c to get the bar money, and the f/o was the only one wearing a hi vis jacket so all the passengers followed him for a mile or so while he walked up the road in shock dazed and confused while the pax all where thinking he was a rescuer of some description  

 

 

 

 

Edited May 7, 20197 yr by Jim Young
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