New MS Flight Sim shown at E3

[ca_metal 2,033]

I beg to differ concerning the "scenery streaming". I think saying it was built using satellite data + Azure AI they meant the Azure's Artificial Intelligence is being used to build the scenery: The AI can erase clouds, color correct the imagery, generate the autogen buildings from the imagery data etc.

In my opinion the use of Azure on the scenery isn't about storaging/streaming it, more likely building it.

Edited June 10, 2019 by ca_metal

[YVRLHRDXB 321]

4 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Many of us have been here before......many times in fact. Trust me, some slick advertising trailer does not give you any info that can be trusted. Nothing real here in this thread just a lot of folks guessing. 

I too have been around for a long time, since the early 90's and I agree you can't trust trailers until more details come out but I would argue times have changed from previous FS releases.

For MS to take a plunge and create a new Flight Sim indicates to me that see a market beyond enthusiasts on this forum.  I also feel MS wants to use the new FS to showcase the new XBOX and what it'll be capable of. It's a win win situation to have MS back in the FS game again and to develop a brand new simulator from the ground up. I only see positives moving forward.

[DaWu 779]

So much talking about streaming without any official word. In fact there is not a single game that comes to my mind that uses any kind of steaming in that scope or closely to that. 

I expect a standard installation like ever before

[eslader 1,814]

14 minutes ago, Janov said:

But I am afraid that the serious simulation aviator will find this new entry lacking in other important aspects.

Aren't they all similarly lacking without addons? I mean, if you want to fly IFR even partially realistically in p3d, you'll need to update the nav database to current and depending on the plane, maybe grab Navigraph, upgrade ATC either via software or something like VATSIM (and then hope there are controllers where you want to fly), and unless you're OK with the fairly lousy selection of default civilian aircraft, you'll need to get a good add-on.

And all of that deficiency is still light years ahead of Xplane from an aviation systems/procedures standpoint.

I don't even want Microsoft to hand me the next best thing to a Level-D sim. I want it to hand me a very solid platform on which others can build. If they cram all of it into the sim up front, it's gonna cost $500 up front, no one will buy it, and then it will once again be concluded that "flight sims are dead."

Just furnish us with a first-rate physics engine and a global airport and terrain system, then open it up for 3rd parties to work their magic.

I'd even be OK if MS wanted to introduce gaming elements into it. Let people earn money flying cargo/pax and use that money to buy airplanes and hangars, etc. Would I use that module? Probably not, but there's a significant group of magpie gamers out there who love games that let them collect things, and their money is just as spendable as mine. The more customers Microsoft can attract with this thing, the more money's on the table to encourage 3rd parties to expand the platform.

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by eslader

[irrics 1,517]

14 minutes ago, Janov said:

...Flight Unlimited, DCS,...) but lack the global content or attention to real world aviation.

 

Wait a minute. 

Given the market they are targeting, what is DCS lacking?

Edited June 10, 2019 by irrics

[Janov 2,383]

Just now, irrics said:

 

Wait a minute. 

Given the market they are targeting, what is DCS lacking?

We are not talking about the market that DCS is targeting, we are talking about a global flight simulation, I thought. If you break down things to the target market, then even Donkey Kong had great scenery and functionality.

Jan

 

[Paraffin 2,197]

3 minutes ago, markbrandon said:

Fairly certain that's the way it'll be, scenery will be streamed using mapping and AI (similar to Google 3D maps) and of course the game will be installed locally (or also streamed, for those using streaming services).

If that's how it will be done, it's a strong suggestion that it could be a subscription model. Not even MS gets bandwidth for free, and servers cost money to run. Take a two-hour flight and that's two hours of constant streaming, every time you fly. That kind of bandwidth and server support won't get covered with just a one-time $60 purchase.

That also might be good news for an SDK and add-on developer support. The problem MS always had in the past, was giving up most of the income for FS to independent 3rd party developers. A subscription model would allow building in a little monthly profit for MS above bandwidth and server costs. A good way to fund continuing development.

LM and LR don't have that same problem of having to develop off a one-time purchase, because both companies subsidize the home PC version of their sim with sales from other flight-related parts of their business.

[irrics 1,517]

1 minute ago, Janov said:

We are not talking about the market that DCS is targeting, we are talking about a global flight simulation, I thought. If you break down things to the target market, then even Donkey Kong had great scenery and functionality.

Jan

 

But you mentioned DCS - they aren’t lacking anything given their target market I’d argue. 

 

I only am am talking about them since you mentioned them. 

[irrics 1,517]

1 minute ago, Paraffin said:

If that's how it will be done, it's a strong suggestion that it could be a subscription model. Not even MS gets bandwidth for free, and servers cost money to run. Take a two-hour flight and that's two hours of constant streaming, every time you fly. That kind of bandwidth and server support won't get covered with just a one-time $60 purchase.

That also might be good news for an SDK and add-on developer support. The problem MS always had in the past, was giving up most of the income for FS to independent 3rd party developers. A subscription model would allow building in a little monthly profit for MS above bandwidth and server costs. A good way to fund continuing development.

LM and LR don't have that same problem of having to develop off a one-time purchase, because both companies subsidize the home PC version of their sim with sales from other flight-related parts of their business.

I hope it is a subscription model honestly if that makes it more viable long term. 

[shivers9 1,174]

4 minutes ago, sl55on20s said:

I too have been around for a long time, since the early 90's and I agree you can't trust trailers until more details come out but I would argue times have changed from previous FS releases.

For MS to take a plunge and create a new Flight Sim indicates to me that see a market beyond enthusiasts on this forum.  I also feel MS wants to use the new FS to showcase the new XBOX and what it'll be capable of. It's a win win situation to have MS back in the FS game again and to develop a brand new simulator from the ground up. I only see positives moving forward.

Only time will tell but just for the sake of argument....I am not sure how many different Flight Sims can be supported by the small number of simmers. As for MS...well I was behind them completely for years. When they started that Flight mess and some guy with no hair said that they always knew best then I was over them.

[DaWu 779]

2 minutes ago, irrics said:

I hope it is a subscription model honestly if that makes it more viable long term. 

If its a subscription model then your game will become useless once MS decides to shut down the servers. No one wants a subscription model cos of ridiculous costs and dependence on the goodwill of MS

[OzWhitey 3,353]

25 minutes ago, Janov said:

I think that X-Plane 11 with the right add-ons (like OrbX, Xenviro, etc) and in the right conditions can already match a lot of what was shown in that video. Sit a decent dev down for 2 days and you can have Flamingos flying around as well...

 

 

Trueearth with Xenviro is exactly what I've been flying over the past few weeks. To my eyes, MSFS 2020 is a big step up visually from that.

As for the Microsoft aerodynamic model - new sim, new rules. We have no idea how accurate the flight model will be - will it use look-up tables, or will they try something new? I love what X-plane can do for GA flight, which is one of the reasons it's been my primary sim of late. However, having just had a couple of great flights over the Smoky Mountains in P3D this evening (it's stormy!) in the A2A V-tail Bonanza, I'd have to say you can get some pretty decent flight experiences in the ESP-based sims with the right add-ons. 

I'm sure I'm not alone here in hoping that Microsoft are going to do their best to get the flight modelling right. One positive - even the much-maligned Flight, which was targetted more at casuals, tried hard to improve the flight modelling from what we had in FSX. I see MSFS as a much larger project, and more of a simulator, so I'm quietly confident that they'll put some effort into getting this key component of the sim right.

Edited June 10, 2019 by OzWhitey

[irrics 1,517]

8 minutes ago, DaWu said:

If its a subscription model then your game will become useless once MS decides to shut down the servers. No one wants a subscription model cos of ridiculous costs and dependence on the goodwill of MS

If they’re streaming the scenery anyway, the point is largely moot. 

Edited June 10, 2019 by irrics

[SoJourned 65]

14 minutes ago, irrics said:

I hope it is a subscription model honestly if that makes it more viable long term. 

Its a good game pass candidate.

[hmi100 0]

Welcome to the Microsoft Azure AI and Cloud-based computing Boys and Girls … literally in the clouds … 😎