5 hours ago, n4gix said:

Better still, install pedals at all seats so pax can provide the power to taxi!! Sell the idea to the pax as needed cardio-vascular exercise...

And the airlines can charge the pax for the cardio-vascular exercise by calling it "therapy" (TM)!

Greg

Edited June 19, 20196 yr by lownslo
Added Trade Mark

1 minute ago, lownslo said:

And the airlines can charge the pax for the cardio-vascular exercise by calling it "therapy"!

Greg

I'm blaming you for this. Spirit Airlines just updated their website and to include your idea.

I just added a TM... because I want a piece of their new fee.

Aircraft manufacturers are working on electric motors for taxiing. No need for tow trucks for pushback either.

https://www.safran-landing-systems.com/systems-equipment/electric-taxiing-0

 

 

Edited June 19, 20196 yr by srce

There have been several companies since 2015 working on electric taxi systems. This one at least seems to have the most promise of actually being put to the test.

On 6/19/2019 at 3:00 AM, TvD said:

Just a question.
How is it that airliners still taxi from the gate to the active runway by them self instead of using towtrucks to set them of at the runway.

Would that not save a lot of fuell and contrbute to our climate?

When I was a kid KLAX used to do exactly this during smog alert days. They don't do it anymore and I remember it took a long time to hook tugs up and they move slower then aircraft on their own power.

The other option is to put electric motors in the wheels and shut down the engines and power up the APU and drive it back that way. This has already been tested but no airlines have adopted it probably due to extra costs and weight. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGTS

1 hour ago, Matthew Kane said:

When I was a kid KLAX used to do exactly this during smog alert days. They don't do it anymore and I remember it took a long time to hook tugs up and they move slower then aircraft on their own power. 

The other option is to put electric motors in the wheels and shut down the engines and power up the APU and drive it back that way. This has already been tested but no airlines have adopted it probably due to extra costs and weight. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EGTS

During which time period? I grew up in Westchester and was a controller at LAX ATCT (tower). Other than tows from the hangars (across Sepulveda Blvd.) to the terminals, everybody normally taxied to the runways (24 & 25) under their own power. 

20 hours ago, 188AHC said:

Sure there is. Inside the VAB  at Kennedy Space Center is its own micro-climate. 

Way back in 1959 I remember playing in a softball tournament in Hangar 1 at Moffett Field. It too had its own micro-climate. Back then it was the largest free-standing structure in the world. I gotta stop remembering the good old times 😊..........Doug

On 6/18/2019 at 8:00 AM, TvD said:

Would that not save a lot of fuell and contrbute to our climate?

Without seeing the other replies, if you factor in all the trucks that would be needed and their exhaust or energy required to charge them if they were electric or fuel cell, more fuel would be used.  "Green" is not always green.  Green vehicles require energy resources to make and charge, and we do not yet have enough renewable energy from wind and solar to make that green feasible.  Breeder nuke reactors would help, and are possible, but the risk there is easy to steal fissile fuel.  My father was a health physicist for the navy and later the US Nuclear Energy commission and also in world wide atomic energy.  He was consulted by other governments, including Russia (after Chernobyl) but was not involved in other government's programs, like the tragic Fukushima disaster, because he had passed on long before that happened.

Green energy will be possible someday, such as with tidal energy, although someone else will cry "save the fish" or "save the birds" in the case of wind energy because they feel that their rights are greater than human rights (yet as they protest, they still use cell phones, energy using Greenpeace ships, and so on).  And I am not trying to be malicious in my comments, those who fight for the environment have a noble purpose but in addition with protesting they need to work with Big Oil and big energy to research solutions and not just point out the problem.  And many are choosing to do that, just not all.  Sadly some "environmentalism" is funded by enemies of the state, not just ours but Russia, China and so on, as those protesters are just trying to stir up unrest. 

And I was no different when I was younger.  It is said when we are young, we shift a little to the left and when we grow older we shift a little to the right--it is natural because as we grow older we wish to protect what we and others have worked for, and when we are young we wish to lean to the left to try to vocalize our ideas until we find a happy medium along the way.  I guess that is why I am not stirred by politics or debates so much as I like to listen, keep my trap shut, and learn from both sides or all sides.  I think flying teaches that in us quite a lot.

John

1 hour ago, Les Parson said:

During which time period? I grew up in Westchester and was a controller at LAX ATCT (tower). Other than tows from the hangars (across Sepulveda Blvd.) to the terminals, everybody normally taxied to the runways (24 & 25) under their own power. 

This would have been summer 1985, I remember because I watched Live Aid in Los Angeles that summer. We came in on an Air Canada flight from Toronto so it would have been a 767, the pilot pulled off the runway and shut the engines down while the tug hooked us up and towed us to the gates. The pilots complained over the intercom about it but it was because of a smog alert so it took longer. Smog was far worse in LA back in the 80s though.

Edited June 19, 20196 yr by Matthew Kane

15 minutes ago, Matthew Kane said:

"Smog was far worse in LA back in the 80s though."

I lived in Burbank for one year, between 66 and 67, and I remember so well the smog back then, it gave the area a "wet cement" smell.  But when I visited later on after 2005 or 2006 or so, I also noticed a huge improvement in smog levels.  Still when I travel on I10, the smell of the LA basin is unmistakable after you pass the casino on I10 and descent into the Inland Empire.  Still not as bad as it once was.  I visited Anaheim with my parents and grandmother in '77 and smog was more noticeable back then, as were the blood red sunsets driving around LA even in the late 80s.  But times change, we improve our pollution output, and it helps make visiting or living in those areas quite better than it once was.  I live in Phoenix which has few smog alert days despite being more dependent on the auto than LA is.  

The desert sun works wonders on burning off car and industry exhaust, although Phoenix is light on polluting industry, being more tech company oriented than just about any city in the country.  I found working in the IT industry that Phoenix is the place to live.  If you are experienced in IT, there are usually more job openings than qualified candidates to fill them, which is why we outsource to India and other countries as much as we do. 

I was a team lead and Agile scrum master for our Centers of Excellence in India.  I and my boss, if he was not available I would serve as scrum master, would conduct our offshore India and European resource meetings after our work hours so our offshore colleagues would not have to come into the office so early for our team meetings.  IT people regardless of country of origin are terrible at being early risers, since we often conduct software upgrades from home during the wee hours so our commercial clients would have little to no downtime during their peak hours of operation.

We telecommuted in Phoenix two or three days a week, which is the best way to be "green" in industry that supports it, like IT or help desk, or as training resources.

John

1 hour ago, Matthew Kane said:

This would have been summer 1985, I remember because I watched Live Aid in Los Angeles that summer. We came in on an Air Canada flight from Toronto so it would have been a 767, the pilot pulled off the runway and shut the engines down while the tug hooked us up and towed us to the gates. The pilots complained over the intercom about it but it was because of a smog alert so it took longer. Smog was far worse in LA back in the 80s though.

The scenario you describe is completely normal at many airports. I thought we were talkin about towing to the runway for departure. 

1 hour ago, John_Cillis said:

I lived in Burbank for one year, between 66 and 67, and I remember so well the smog back then, it gave the area a "wet cement" smell.  But when I visited later on after 2005 or 2006 or so, I also noticed a huge improvement in smog levels.  Still when I travel on I10, the smell of the LA basin is unmistakable after you pass the casino on I10 and descent into the Inland Empire.  Still not as bad as it once was.  I visited Anaheim with my parents and grandmother in '77 and smog was more noticeable back then, as were the blood red sunsets driving around LA even in the late 80s.  But times change, we improve our pollution output, and it helps make visiting or living in those areas quite better than it once was.  I live in Phoenix which has few smog alert days despite being more dependent on the auto than LA is.  

The desert sun works wonders on burning off car and industry exhaust, although Phoenix is light on polluting industry, being more tech company oriented than just about any city in the country.  I found working in the IT industry that Phoenix is the place to live.  If you are experienced in IT, there are usually more job openings than qualified candidates to fill them, which is why we outsource to India and other countries as much as we do. 

I was a team lead and Agile scrum master for our Centers of Excellence in India.  I and my boss, if he was not available I would serve as scrum master, would conduct our offshore India and European resource meetings after our work hours so our offshore colleagues would not have to come into the office so early for our team meetings.  IT people regardless of country of origin are terrible at being early risers, since we often conduct software upgrades from home during the wee hours so our commercial clients would have little to no downtime during their peak hours of operation.

We telecommuted in Phoenix two or three days a week, which is the best way to be "green" in industry that supports it, like IT or help desk, or as training resources.

John

You are absolutely correct. I lived in Westchester (near LAX) in 66 and 67. The smog was so bad the birds were on the front lawn coughing! After that, California required stricter emissions and there was something called the PCV for cars. People complained about cost and decreased efficiency but I guess it was effective. 

9 minutes ago, Les Parson said:

People complained about cost and decreased efficiency but I guess it was effective. 

Yes quite true.  Emission devices have helped a lot, and Arizona also has emission testing as a requirement every two years to get an updated registration for a vehicle, if you own one.  I am not sure if such devices exist in piston aircraft, but I do not think so.  Many small piston aircraft I have flown in have the strong odor of gas fumes in them, and I would not buy such an aircraft.  The Rans S6ES does not, at least one I flew in, but it is hit and miss.  Even pax jets flyers get a strong whiff of kerosene when the engines are fired up, quite noticeable even in the modern birds.  But the old turbojet 707's and 727's were very bad on the skies, with black exhaust pouring from them at takeoff, and one could smell the kerosene if outside on an airport observation deck, like SFO once had where the old international terminal now modernized domestic terminal facing the runways stands.

John

31 minutes ago, John_Cillis said:

Yes quite true.  Emission devices have helped a lot, and Arizona also has emission testing as a requirement every two years to get an updated registration for a vehicle, if you own one.  I am not sure if such devices exist in piston aircraft, but I do not think so.  Many small piston aircraft I have flown in have the strong odor of gas fumes in them, and I would not buy such an aircraft.  The Rans S6ES does not, at least one I flew in, but it is hit and miss.  Even pax jets flyers get a strong whiff of kerosene when the engines are fired up, quite noticeable even in the modern birds.  But the old turbojet 707's and 727's were very bad on the skies, with black exhaust pouring from them at takeoff, and one could smell the kerosene if outside on an airport observation deck, like SFO once had where the old international terminal now modernized domestic terminal facing the runways stands.

John

Yep, that's all true. In the early 60's, I lived on about a 2mi final to LAX Rwy 24 (no L/R in those days) with B707, DC8, Electra, F27. The black smoke were from the "Water Wagons" that used water injection on takeoff. Nobody cared back then and everybody smoked. Remember, you weren't cool unless you smoked.