jcomm

11.40 b1 available...

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Go testing the new "feel" of taxiing under x-winds.

Go testing the new "feel" of hovering, preferably on a non-SAS heli.

And there's a lot more. Overall a good step fwd, IMO.

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Austin is "BACK TO LIFE" !!!

This guy is UNIQUE !  🙂

And... now I have yet another good reason to like FLIGHT SIMULATOR... I don't have to wait for their paced announcements about what it'll be, but rather enjoy what, somehow also propulsioned by the "threat" of the competition, X-Plane will be, from here to X-Plane 12.

I seriously believe Vulkan will be delayed for X-Plane 12, but Austin, with this investment, long awaited but already tremendous ! , will offer a good time slot to the fellow doing the graphics stuff for X-Plane to do he's magic more calmly...

( sorry for the possible English typos - didn't have time to edit / clean )

Edited by jcomm
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5 minutes ago, Beardyman said:

just wondering if anyone from P3D team do similar job there ?

They're probably also doing their homework for P3D v5, I guess. Each on it's own ... 

But guys, War Thunder is so so good....... My preferred --> today <-- 😎

 

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9 hours ago, Murmur said:

More improvements coming for b3:

 

Official b1 = Austin b3
He clarifies that here
all the improvements are already available

 

1 hour ago, Colonel X said:

The first thing I do after reading these "beta is out" posts, I go check if X-Vision has been updated already. And every damned time, YES IT HAS.

http://x-vision.pro/releases.html

Yes they're incredible. I'm holding off the purchase only because of the likelyhood of Vulkan breaking it for good. Don't know how long I can resist though

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2 hours ago, jcomm said:

 

But guys, War Thunder is so so good....... My preferred --> today <-- 😎

 

what's good about it ?  and tomorrow which will be the preferred ?

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18 minutes ago, HumptyDumpty said:

what's good about it ?  and tomorrow which will be the preferred ?

Hmmmm, let me see... AH!  Crimson Skies! Thursday is Crimson Skies day...

Jokes apart - XP is getting really interesting with Austin back to work!

You can now test the rotary effects introduced with these latest betas - although I'm not sure the 412 is meant to be used with "experimental flight model" enables, I have used it that way, with # of flight models per frame = 6, and wow!  It's even better now!

Now I can finally say that, apart from professional FNPTs, no sim I have used is as good as X-Plane for helicopters !

 

Edited by jcomm
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5 hours ago, jcomm said:

Hmmmm, let me see... AH!  Crimson Skies! Thursday is Crimson Skies day...

That bloody autogyro mission with the train...

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On 9/11/2019 at 9:15 AM, Beardyman said:

just wondering if anyone from P3D team do similar job there ?

Seriously, I don't think so !

I mean, all of you who are familiar with the venerable FSX, and who have done a loooooot of P3D flying (simulating) too may have recognized, that P3D's flight dynamics/physics are still ancient, coming from the old legacy of FSX.

They are, more or less, still the same.  And without massive help from 3rd party developers e.g. A2A someone would experience the same old song of inaccuracy, regarding physics like stall, landing/take off behaviour, and numerous other issues all day long.

But this guy - Austin Meyers - is unique and genuine.  And his main concerns are - probably - to get the flight dynamics and its physics done just right , as real as it gets  ---> of course in the boundaries of a simulator.

Sometimes he is - maybe - misled and overshooting but always on the search of the best approach and validity, with a lot of passion and forward drive.

LM in comparission don't even care about "correct" helicopter flight dynamics of their own default choppers and of improving them.

 

All the best,

Konrad

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Honestly, I'm really not impressed by version 11.40b2 and its new flight model (experimantel mode) - just from the point of my "in sim experience", not from the point of an engineer (which I'm not).

I went through various helicopters (my preferred machine in X-Plane) and some GA light aircrafts.  To note: I'm always simulating without the inputs of stabilizers or SAS, because I'm keen on experiencing the "pure flying experience" since the beginnings of my "career" as a flight-sim-pilot.

  • Hovering became more stable (if you are very delicate with your imputs).
  • In general: there is significantly more trim-work necessary, with steady imputs and the thumb constantly on the trim button.
  • both GA aircraft and choppers as well feel more sluggish in the air, and stronger imputs of pitch and yaw in my helos lead to overhooting easily (--> maybe I should recalibrate my imput curve )
  • Aerobatics in Extra 300 also felt little bit more sluggish, not so fluid than before.
  • In general, it doesn't feel more realistically in terms of "almost airborne" , not at all !!!  (! just my own two cents !).

 

conclusion:  I will roll back to my main version 11.32 (experimantel mode checked), dead shure !

 

All the best.

Edited by KBUR

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Real flying is not a rock stable affair at all, but correcting any deviations is easier due to better control and sensory inputs.

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But doesn't the planes themselves also need to be optimized / changed for the experimental flight model, before they fully represent what it's trying to convey? Was under the impression you couldn't just slap on the beta and experimental with any old plane, expecting a perfect, realistic result.

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7 hours ago, Sethos said:

But doesn't the planes themselves also need to be optimized / changed for the experimental flight model, before they fully represent what it's trying to convey? Was under the impression you couldn't just slap on the beta and experimental with any old plane, expecting a perfect, realistic result.

That is correct.

Often planes were "tuned" to behave realistically, even with an imperfect flightmodel. And every change - even towards perfection - will make these planes fly "worse"...

I think we need to keep in mind that some of the flight-model changes are really minute, though. I think we are going to see an effect where people just THINK that something changed, but it really didn´t. 

It´s a bit like when people report that their framerates change drastically with every new beta - even though nothing was changed that could affect that.

Without a scientific test regime with controlled test to the very same parameters it will be hard to really get anything better than a "general feeling" - which will be very subjective.

Austin has gotten pretty good at filtering out outlier personal opinions. With every change made he gets messages from users that both "hate" and "love" the new change. So he needs to wait for a general consensus to form, have it backed up by real pilots and (if available) flight-test data before he is willing to change something. This takes a bit of time (sometimes a long time), but it beats swinging back and forth, I think.

Cheers, Jan

 

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8 hours ago, Janov said:

That is correct.

Often planes were "tuned" to behave realistically, even with an imperfect flightmodel. And every change - even towards perfection - will make these planes fly "worse"...

I think we need to keep in mind that some of the flight-model changes are really minute, though. I think we are going to see an effect where people just THINK that something changed, but it really didn´t. 

It´s a bit like when people report that their framerates change drastically with every new beta - even though nothing was changed that could affect that.

Without a scientific test regime with controlled test to the very same parameters it will be hard to really get anything better than a "general feeling" - which will be very subjective.

Austin has gotten pretty good at filtering out outlier personal opinions. With every change made he gets messages from users that both "hate" and "love" the new change. So he needs to wait for a general consensus to form, have it backed up by real pilots and (if available) flight-test data before he is willing to change something. This takes a bit of time (sometimes a long time), but it beats swinging back and forth, I think.

Cheers, Jan

 

Yea, I think your statement is really true.  In the main its really a good thing that Austin is so devoted to the topic of " as real as it gets "  regarding the correct flight envelopes and physics.

And X-Plane is very ease in terms of flexibility:  If a user has found his personal sweet-spot with the flight dynamics over a certain version (like me with version 11.32), you can easily roll back to the previous one.

Assumed, the serious chair-pilot has done his X-Plane backups properly and before an update :wink: - which should be common sense among the X-Plane " evangelists ".

All the best.

Edited by KBUR
wrong spelling

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20 hours ago, KBUR said:

I went through various helicopters (my preferred machine in X-Plane) and some GA light aircrafts.  To note: I'm always simulating without the inputs of stabilizers or SAS, because I'm keen on experiencing the "pure flying experience" since the beginnings of my "career" as a flight-sim-pilot.

I'm curious about your approach there, and just to clarify: Do you mean you fly helicopters that include SAS as a normal system, i.e. not an arcade mode included by the developer, with SAS always disabled?

I turn off XP's internal stabilization, but I use the  "normal" (i.e. realistic) setting for SAS in something like the X-Trident Bell 412, because that's how real pilots fly them. They're not really meant to be flown without SAS at all; it's part of the flight model and systems design for more advanced helicopters. If you're avoiding SAS completely, you may not be experiencing the intended flight model realism built in by the designer.

P.S. I haven't tried the experimental flight model yet with a helicopter. I'd rather wait to see if the developer wants to update their distribution file to include it, but it's interesting to hear what others are finding with it. 

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5 hours ago, Paraffin said:

I'm curious about your approach there, and just to clarify: Do you mean you fly helicopters that include SAS as a normal system, i.e. not an arcade mode included by the developer, with SAS always disabled?

I turn off XP's internal stabilization, but I use the  "normal" (i.e. realistic) setting for SAS in something like the X-Trident Bell 412, because that's how real pilots fly them. They're not really meant to be flown without SAS at all; it's part of the flight model and systems design for more advanced helicopters. If you're avoiding SAS completely, you may not be experiencing the intended flight model realism built in by the designer.

P.S. I haven't tried the experimental flight model yet with a helicopter. I'd rather wait to see if the developer wants to update their distribution file to include it, but it's interesting to hear what others are finding with it. 

Well, thank's for your good intentions, but  >>sigh 🤧<<, I've tried every single possible version.  SAS on & off, various aircrafts, experim. mode on and off, etc... .

Last but not least, even the default X-Plane Sikorsky started to behave like a ragging bull in the air, and obviously became a masochistic lover of the infamous VRS.

Finally, this short but painful v. 11.40 b2 experience was accompanied with lots of CTD's.  Must admit, this was by far the worst X-Plane beta version I've tested during my relatively short X-Plane "career" of two years.

So, I'm done with this buzzkill , and 'm rolling back to my current favourite version 11.32 R2 just at the moment.

 

Thank's and all the best.

PS:  Somethimes, X-Plane must be a real nightmare for 3rd party aircraft developers  😉.

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4 hours ago, KBUR said:

Well, thank's for your good intentions, but  >>sigh 🤧<<, I've tried every single possible version.  SAS on & off, various aircrafts, experim. mode on and off, etc... .

Last but not least, even the default X-Plane Sikorsky started to behave like a ragging bull in the air, and obviously became a masochistic lover of the infamous VRS.

That doesn't sound like what most of us are experiencing with helicopters in this sim, especially the "raging bull" part. I've never seen that in XP11, including in the current 11.40b1. 

The default S-76 isn't the best available helicopter in the sim (all of those are payware), but it's a decent model for getting your control setup calibrated for helicopters. I suspect your controls might be the problem. Let us know what hardware you're using for flight controls, how they're calibrated, and maybe there is an answer to the problems. 

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15 minutes ago, Paraffin said:

That doesn't sound like what most of us are experiencing with helicopters in this sim, especially the "raging bull" part. I've never seen that in XP11, including in the current 11.40b1. 

The default S-76 isn't the best available helicopter in the sim (all of those are payware), but it's a decent model for getting your control setup calibrated for helicopters. I suspect your controls might be the problem. Let us know what hardware you're using for flight controls, how they're calibrated, and maybe there is an answer to the problems. 

Offering your help is really nice , but I could solve all this problems I've listed already:  By just rolling back to version v.11.32 R2, and I'll stay with this version further for a while.

Honestly, I've changed absolutely nothing - just rolling back - and all these weired flight behaviiours including the input problems vanished.

By the way, I've invested a lot of time in setting up the (for my needs) right controller setup.  For cyclic I'm using the TM Warthog stick, and for the collective I built up my own (custom made).  This setup also works very well in my other sims and with its choppers too (DCS, Aerofly...), so nothing to compain about it.

I can understand that all this sounds - maybe - weired from your point of view, but it's the only I can tell you.

Howsoever many thanks for offering your help 😀.

 

Cheers,

Konrad

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Going back or clinging to older X-Plane versions is perfectly viable - if you are ready to live with the fact that the X-Plane world will continue to evolve and get better - without you along for the ride.

I think the best way forward is to get involved and provide feedback, even if your observations don´t match what others say.

For me the helicopters work pretty much as before, with only very subtle changes, except for the VRS breaking a bit too readily...

Cheers, Jan

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