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Half-Life: Alyx is announced and how it's related to MSFS 2020

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The CEO of Asobo mentioned it in one of the interviews at X019... He said that they are studying how to implement VR in the context of a flight simulator...

He said that Asobo implemented VR a while ago in many previous applications. So they know how to do it... They even implemented augmented / mixed reality as well so it's not a mystery to them it seems.

However, he added that the challenge is to see how one controls the multiple functionality of a cockpit and get a nice user experience (or something like that)... And I totally agree with him on this... Because this is the main reason I am not super in a hurry to jump to VR although it seems the most immersive thing you can live in a simulator... Those who use VR in XP11 do not want to revert back...

VR kits have hand controllers and most users operate in VR mode, virtual Yokes, throttles and to click your cockpit buttons etc. You just push, pull and click in the air...

But is it the best experience? Not sure when it comes to flight simulation...

So despite the super immersion one can live in VR, and despite the hand controllers, the experience of being blind while having to operate virtual yokes and throttles is in my opinion not the best experience...

The only thing VR can help efficiently is in Virtual Cockpit training, where the muscle memory is trained to quickly reach the proper button or knob during a specific sequence... Something that was just possible in a real cockpit...

However, when it comes to the main controllers, I personally prefer to operate hardware instead of virtual yokes and throttles.. But if you do so, you will need an extra hand to operate the VR controller (to click your cockpit buttons)...

As a compromise, I much prefer something like SimPit: https://www.simpit.co.nz/

Edited by Claviateur

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@ClaviateurThere's no requirement to use the VR hand controllers to interact with the cockpit with. In Il-2 I simply have everything bound to the stick and throttle. For DCS I add in VAI for unit commands and the mouse for anything that needs to be clicked in the cockpit. 

Now that does get more difficult for things that aren't clickable and aren't something you'd bind to a keybinding. I did finally figure out where to put the canopy and window controls in Il-2 (doesn't support clickpits) but things like wingman commands and general radio work in that game I really need to set up voice activation for. 

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Blah..... I'd be impressed if those enemies actually reacted when they heard a nearby gunshot.


Matthew S

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2 hours ago, rjfry said:

With 0.2% of steam users using VR this may be a push by manufactures to get Valve to get VR more into gaming only playable with VR hardware.

I've pointed this out before, though.

With approximately 1 billion users on steam, even only 0.2 percent of them would be a quite respectable two million potential customers.......


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
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9 hours ago, nickhod said:

On the PC side, an RTX 2080 can already drive a  2160 x 2160 per eye (4k) headset. The screen door effect is almost gone at that resolution. In 5 years time, high end cards might be able to drive 6k or 8k headsets natively.

I can confirm. I have an HP reverb--the resolution is pin sharp at 2160x2160, and I get 45 fps around the bay area.I'm using a i9-9900k/1080 ti. The resolution is a must for simming.

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Specs: I9-9900K. Nvidia 1080 ti, 32bg ram, I7-6700K, Nvidia 1080 | Headsets: Hp Reverb, Samsung Odyssey OG, Oculus Rift, Oculus Quest and Oculus Go
Flight Simulators: Prepar3d, FSX, X-plane 11, Aerofly FS 2, DCS, FSW

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57 minutes ago, Claviateur said:

However, he added that the challenge is to see how one controls the multiple functionality of a cockpit and get a nice user experience (or something like that)... And I totally agree with him on this... Because this is the main reason I am not super in a hurry to jump to VR although it seems the most immersive thing you can live in a simulator... Those who use VR in XP11 do not want to revert back...

I agree with you on most things, but what is super hurry?
it depends on what kind of planes or mission you're launching and what to expect,
to experience VR you don't have to operate all the buttons, i mostly fly VFR with cessna like airplanes 

with my yoke + pedals + throttle and nothing more is needed. When i land and exit the plane and walk around the plane

and the surroundings with my xbox controller and i still have my HMD on. I seldom fly the big tubes, see what i mean?

Even flying advanced fighter airplanes and dogfighting a simple stick & throttle & pedals setup is enough

like in this video shown: https://youtu.be/v5He75bhz9I?t=729

 


100% VR flyer - Valve Index & RTX 2080 ti

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2 minutes ago, daveinca2000 said:

I can confirm. I have an HP reverb--the resolution is pin sharp at 2160x2160, and I get 45 fps around the bay area.I'm using a i9-9900k/1080 ti. The resolution is a must for simming.

About to pull the trigger on a Reverb. Good to hear that you're using it successfully with a 1080ti. I now have a 2080 Super, but I was concerned that I'd need a 2080ti.

 

4 hours ago, Vlooi said:

VR smells too much like the 3D craze the world had some years ago. 3D TV's, this, that... And just like now with VR, proponents called it the second coming of graphics.

<Sigh>, not the 3D TV thing again. Why would the millions of people around the world that really, really enjoy using VR several times a week wake up one day and say "right, had enough of that".

3D TV died because people failed to keep buying 3D media after the initial TV purchase. People do keep buying VR content though. 

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1 hour ago, Claviateur said:

VR kits have hand controllers and most users operate in VR mode, virtual Yokes, throttles and to click your cockpit buttons etc. You just push, pull and click in the air...

Check out the most recent Navigraph survey. Most VR users use real yokes and throttles.

I have my controller nearby and pick it up when I need to interact with the cockpit.

Using real yoke / throttle hardware combined with hand tracking would be the optimal solution though.

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19 minutes ago, Nedo68 said:

[...]

and the surroundings with my xbox controller and i still have my HMD on. I seldom fly the big tubes, see what i mean?

[...]

I wonder if that is the differentiator here? I know my primary interest is in smaller aircraft, and I really have no personal interest in commercial airliners or heavy multi-crew aircraft, so I've been approaching this from the perspective of blasting down the Grand Canyon at 250kts+ indicated. That's a very different use case than operating a jet airliner. 

Thinking about the limited time I've use the Il-2 A-20, most of that was fairly heads-down in the cockpit, in which case your in a, what, 4 by 2 box monitoring gauges and clock times. 

Does anyone know what the relative fraction is of civilian flight simmers are who predominantly fly under pure Instrument Flight Rules? I'm thinking if your primary operating procedures involve taking notes, changing frequency, and tracking the center cluster, VR isn't going to do much for you that you wouldn't get from an external gauge cluster and a switch box.

The big game changer is when you are trying to do that by looking at the ground and judge if you've got enough clearance to do the thing you're thinking about doing, or trying to see around the nose, or something that's hiding behind a canopy line, or anything involved in guessing distance and contact vector.

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3m wide screen

19 minutes ago, nickhod said:

3D TV died because people failed to keep buying 3D media after the initial TV purchase...

ehm..pardon i still buy 3D media, i preffer watching mostly action movies in 3D with a atmos setup at home, just not on a TV but on a projector

why? Even a 65" TV is way to small for a good 3D experience if you sit 3-4m away, thats why 3D TVs died, but nothing changed for projectors

still number 1 for home cinema. A 3m wide screen at 4m distance is perfect for 3D thats a similar FOV you get at theaters.

As an example the Avengers Endgame in 3D is more then awesome compared to the 2D version, some Movies are just made for this.

Edit: and before someone killing me here, yes i still watch standard 2D Movies on a standard TV ! 😂

Edited by Nedo68

100% VR flyer - Valve Index & RTX 2080 ti

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1 hour ago, Nedo68 said:

3m wide screen

ehm..pardon i still buy 3D media, i preffer watching mostly action movies in 3D with a atmos setup at home, just not on a TV but on a projector

why? Even a 65" TV is way to small for a good 3D experience if you sit 3-4m away, thats why 3D TVs died, but nothing changed for projectors

still number 1 for home cinema. A 3m wide screen at 4m distance is perfect for 3D thats a similar FOV you get at theaters.

As an example the Avengers Endgame in 3D is more then awesome compared to the 2D version, some Movies are just made for this.

Edit: and before someone killing me here, yes i still watch standard 2D Movies on a standard TV ! 😂

I watch my 3D movies in my headset..... In a life sized VR theatre 😺


Just Flight Beta Tester
 
We are all connected..... To each other, biologically...... To the Earth, chemically...... To the rest of the Universe atomically.
 
Devons rig
Intel Core i7 8700K @ 5.0GHz / 32.0GB G.SKILL TridentZ Series Dual-Channel Ram / ZOTAC GAMING GeForce® RTX 2080 Ti Triple Fan / Sound Blaster Z / Oculus Rift VR Headset / Klipsch® Promedia 2.1 Computer Speakers / ASUS ROG SWIFT PG279Q ‑ 27" IPS LED Monitor ‑ QHD / 2x Samsung SSD 850 EVO 500GB / Windows 10 Pro 64-bit / Gigabyte Z370 AORUS Gaming 5 Motherboard

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You picked a poor example there, Nedo68. Avengers : Endgame is garbage in however many dimensions you care to watch it.

Edited by Christopher Low

Christopher Low

UK2000 Beta Tester

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14 hours ago, Claviateur said:

The CEO of Asobo mentioned it in one of the interviews at X019... He said that they are studying how to implement VR in the context of a flight simulator...

He said that Asobo implemented VR a while ago in many previous applications. So they know how to do it... They even implemented augmented / mixed reality as well so it's not a mystery to them it seems.

However, he added that the challenge is to see how one controls the multiple functionality of a cockpit and get a nice user experience (or something like that)...

The CEO's perfectionist attitude towards VR is something I fear most. He is making a simple matter complicated, and could eventually kill the implementation of VR.

Several days ago there was a poll about simple VR or complicated VR. It's regarded as repeating an old topic much discussed. But it isn't. I understand the poster has the same fear as me. 

Simple VR should be very simple to implement, and it won't harm the implementation of complex VR later. 

As some people have already said, there are many ways to go around the controller problem in VR. Let's imagine the most crude form of VR in which you can do nothing other than holding the joystick and watch the view. Now if you want to do more controls, you need only to switch back to 2D mode with the press of one button. So you switch from 2D to VR mode constantly. Does this break immersion? Of course. Will this be fun? You bet! I remember the early 3D movie is just the same. At certain points you are instructed to put on the 3D glasses to watch the short 3D passage. And then you reluctantly put it off to go on with the 2D view. It's awkward, but it's still great fun. Now I was just imagining the most crude and pitiful form of VR to show it's still great fun, and this does not do anybody or any future update any harm.

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VR is still way too expensive, and still not very impressive.

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