A fully tuned and working P3D 4.5x is a beautiful thing!

[Christopher Low 5,341]

Anything less than v4.4 will not be compatible with PBR textures.

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

2 hours ago, kingm56 said:

If I read your post correctly, it sounds like you want to perpetuate the status-quo (i.e. the need need for hundreds of add-ons)?

I'm quite sure that is not what Rob meant.  According to Microsoft/ASOBA, they have already teamed up with a many addon developers, which really only solidifies Rob's point.

Now, I do understand your perspective and I think all flight simmers long for a no addon needed flight sim. In fact, there are many people who used FS2004 and FSX over a very long time who never purchased a single addon.  But for those who desire to continue to push for the highest levels of immersion and realism will always find addons to help them do this.... ALWAYS, especially because new tech is something that always just around the corner.  But there are other reasons as well.  The MSFS default rendition of Heathrow may be impressive when compared to FSX/P3D default, but for someone who has used high quality payware scenery for this airport before very well may not be satisfied and would jump at the change to  obtain an addon to increase their realism and immersion. MSFS knows this and has already incorporated this into their plans.

Now, the above is not speculation, and it's how it's been through every different iteration of MS flight sims. I can also tell you that this is far from the first time such a debate has come around in our community and in others.

Addons developers take a risk with every new product, especially the complex addons which require a few hundred thousand Euros to develop. It will always be an individual decision if they purchase an addon, which from a pure logic perspective really just nullifies this debate. Doesn't mean we can't still talk about it, but it does mean that on a community scale it simply won't make a difference - it always boils down to a individual decision to purchase or not.

My very best wishes!

 

 

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

deleted post.  

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Sesquashtoo

[DaveCT2003 1,820]

1 minute ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I can't comment on future platforms (plural) which I'm testing but here is what P3D currently has that FSX doesn't:

1.  64bit - this is very significant, it opens the door for content providers to produce high quality, high res textures, and as much as they dare in aircraft, airport, object complexity

2.  Dynamic Lighting ... lights are now volumentric and light the area

3.  Dynamic Reflections ... reflective surfaces will display "living" objects 

4.  Volumetric fog

5.  PBR support for materials

6.  SpeedTrees (dynamic 3D vegetation) that interacts with aircraft and wind

7.  Cloud Shadows

8.  DX11 API for advance rendering techniques

9.  PDK (Prepar3D's low level developer kit)

10. Support for SSAA (higher quality AA)

11.  TFR that goes to 120 FPS

12.  Native VR support

13.  Support for high resolution terrain textures up to 1024 (brings clarity to distant terrain)

14.  Water and Bathymetry improvements with CUDA support for hardware accelerated performance

15.  Windshield effects

16.  Detailed precipitation

17.  Additional controller support and calibration

18.  Native radar support

19.  Higher/wider LOD Radius (thanks to 64bit code path)

20.  Significantly increased Autogen draw distance and density (again thanks ot 64bit code path)

21.  Several thousand bug fixes

22.  Added support for 3DSMax 2019

23.  Added support for Visual Studio 2019

24.  Added support for .NET 4.72 framework

25.  Updated native managed SimConnect

26.  Scripted object texture changes based on environment variables (allowing for weathering of cockpits, runways, rain puddles, snow buildup, etc.)

27.  Compatibility ... example, 326 of my FSX/P3D V2 detailed airports have been updated to work in P3D V4.5 ... out of 347 I owned over the past decade or so.

28.  1000 other enhancement/features no obvious but listed in your Learning Center.chm that comes with P3D, suggest you look thru the "What's New" sections if you want to get an idea of just how different P3D is from FSX.

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Remind me to never to argue with you Rob!   LOL!

[Mace 1,902]

4 hours ago, kingm56 said:

 Thus, the environmental add-ons might become obsolete, which should be celebrated.

They won't be obsolete.  Add-on developers and the market will be pursuing "changes" (or improvements?) always.

I think this tangent is off-topic and is bordering on not needing to be here at all.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

17 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I can't comment on future platforms (plural) which I'm testing but here is what P3D currently has that FSX doesn't:

1.  64bit - this is very significant, it opens the door for content providers to produce high quality, high res textures, and as much as they dare in aircraft, airport, object complexity

2.  Dynamic Lighting ... lights are now volumentric and light the area

3.  Dynamic Reflections ... reflective surfaces will display "living" objects 

4.  Volumetric fog

5.  PBR support for materials

6.  SpeedTrees (dynamic 3D vegetation) that interacts with aircraft and wind

7.  Cloud Shadows

8.  DX11 API for advance rendering techniques

9.  PDK (Prepar3D's low level developer kit)

10. Support for SSAA (higher quality AA)

11.  TFR that goes to 120 FPS

12.  Native VR support

13.  Support for high resolution terrain textures up to 1024 (brings clarity to distant terrain)

14.  Water and Bathymetry improvements with CUDA support for hardware accelerated performance

15.  Windshield effects

16.  Detailed precipitation

17.  Additional controller support and calibration

18.  Native radar support

19.  Higher/wider LOD Radius (thanks to 64bit code path)

20.  Significantly increased Autogen draw distance and density (again thanks ot 64bit code path)

21.  Several thousand bug fixes

22.  Added support for 3DSMax 2019

23.  Added support for Visual Studio 2019

24.  Added support for .NET 4.72 framework

25.  Updated native managed SimConnect

26.  Scripted object texture changes based on environment variables (allowing for weathering of cockpits, runways, rain puddles, snow buildup, etc.)

27.  Compatibility ... example, 326 of my FSX/P3D V2 detailed airports have been updated to work in P3D V4.5 ... out of 347 I owned over the past decade or so.

28.  1000 other enhancement/features no obvious but listed in your Learning Center.chm that comes with P3D, suggest you look thru the "What's New" sections if you want to get an idea of just how different P3D is from FSX.

Cheers, Rob.

 

....and all this Rob...costing no FPS overhead. I am simply amazed at the performance difference on my own system, between v4.4 and v4.5.   I'm flying around all over complex orbx installations,  with active sky, all of it...and running pretty constant at 28-33 FPS.  Like I stated in my O.P....FPS is no longer the bear with this version....not at all.  I also got all my 3rd P's working, including my beloved  Lionheart Quest Kodiak. Just got the Garmin panels to show up...now, truly a total happy camper.

[Sesquashtoo 2,846]

19 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

It has an FPS overhead, but add-ons are the key factors in FPS reduction, choose wisely and configure accordingly.

... oh forgot AVATAR mode too in P3D that isn't in FSX ... being able to exit one vehicle and enter another.

But like I said, 10+ years and over 1000+ content providers, P3D has evolved considerably ... MFS have A LOT more work to do if they want to catchup and compete with that ... add-on development will be a must if they want to be around for the long run ... so where is that MFS SDK? 😉

Cheers, Rob.

I guess that I should have stated it, as a better handling of FPS, (with what a user has added in)...and that, at least in my use...there have been a few times, where as the hard drive is loading, and I dropped for only a second or three, to 10-12 FPS, no animation performance hit.  I did see that with v4.4 and down...

[CFIJose 5,485]

Mitch,

Glad that you are enjoying the latest version of P3D v4. Simming should be FUN!

I also think that it's an excellent training device. 😁

Jose

[Doug47 574]

56 minutes ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

But like I said, 10+ years and over 1000+ content providers, P3D has evolved considerably ... MFS have A LOT more work to do if they want to catchup and compete with that ... add-on development will be a must if they want to be around for the long run ... so where is that MFS SDK? 😉

Cheers, Rob.

And from the first 2020 trailer onwards, it’s blown all sims out of the water in one foul swoop. And not needing ‘1000+ content providers’ either. 
 

It’s nice your optimistic I suppose. But many on the Titanic were optimistic as well...

[edpatino 1,960]

16 hours ago, KBUR said:

Now, now...you've forgotten One Simulator we already have on the market.  And its the only one which is currently available with a superb and real modern graphics engine, sublime flight dynamics included.  It blasts away everything else in terms of performance and smoothness; in VR as well.

Here we go:  Aerofly FS 2

And I'm in hight doubt that MSFS2020 will ever reach this kind of performance; this upcoming "new" sim will be backwards compatible in some areas according to its developers, so it can't be a completely new MS engine.

All the best and stay happy

Sorry, but AFS2 is a "naked" simulator. No way to compare it to P3D or XP in simulation depth.

Just my opinion, considering that I have both AFS2 and P3Dv4.5hf2.

Cheers, Ed

[Ezra 29]

50 minutes ago, Doug47 said:

And from the first 2020 trailer onwards, it’s blown all sims out of the water in one foul swoop. And not needing ‘1000+ content providers’ either. 
 

It’s nice your optimistic I suppose. But many on the Titanic were optimistic as well...

Beware of the selected "trailers" which still lack the benchmark. . .

. . . I love the analogy about the Titanic. However, we must be careful for Bismark was not built in a day, yet she sunk in short order as well...

Cheers

Edited January 7, 2020 by Ezra

[warbirds 555]

3 hours ago, Rob_Ainscough said:

I can't comment on future platforms (plural) which I'm testing but here is what P3D currently has that FSX doesn't:

 

2.  Dynamic Lighting ... lights are now volumentric and light the area

 

 

 

Dynamic lighting world wide? Xplane 11 has it world wide,,even cars headlight light up the ground in front..

 

[Mace 1,902]

3 hours ago, Doug47 said:

And from the first 2020 trailer onwards, it’s blown all sims out of the water in one foul swoop. And not needing ‘1000+ content providers’ either. 

One "foul swoop" eh?   😁  That's an appropriate choice of words.

[mtrainer 136]

I did a clean install of LM P3D 4.5 early this year and leaving behind a lot of junk I greatly increased frame rates.  It looks good and is smooth.  In fact I vowed to not install an ORBX airport/region until I actually plan to go there.  Things are running pretty good on a PC most of you would laugh at (but not for long!).

Mark Trainer

 

 

[Doug47 574]

2 hours ago, mtrainer said:

Things are running pretty good on a PC most of you would laugh at (but not for long!).

Mark Trainer

 

 

We can't laugh at you if you don't tell us what you have. 😄