Do we Cancel Everything? You still Travelling??

[W2DR 1,862]

12 hours ago, Mallard said:

Go ahead - but even now the European Center for Disease Prevention and Control has this to say

 

5. Are face masks effective in protecting against COVID-19?

If you are infected, the use of surgical face masks may reduce the risk of you infecting other people. On the other hand there is no evidence that face masks will effectively prevent you from becoming infected with the virus. In fact, it is possible that the use of face masks may even increase the risk of infection due to a false sense of security and increased contact between hands, mouth and eyes while wearing them. The inappropriate use of masks also may increase the risk of infection.

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/covid-19/questions-answers

The most effective measures still appear to be contact tracing, distancing and basic hygiene, inconvenient and bothersome as they are

Cheers Mallard

This may be the single worst piece of advice I've seen in the last few days. What planet are these people living on? There is no hope for anyone who believes that wearing a mask is somehow more dangerous than just walking about unprotected.. These folks all deserve a Darwin Award - it's just another  case of natural selection and survival of the fittest (and smartest).

[Mallard 195]

Just a short while ago I had exactly the case that is being warned against - one of my neighbours is back out and going to the shops, sometimes several times a day! I had a chat with him about it, but, you guessed it, he was now wearing one of these flimsy masks, and told me in no uncertain manner, that he was now safe and protected and therefore didn't need to follow the urgent advice to stay at home and limit shopping...

 

So, yeah - a prime example of why this situation won't end soon.

 

Cheers

Mallard

[martin-w 3,267]

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00895-8?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_content=organic&utm_campaign=NGMT_USG_JC01_GL_Nature

 

Antibody rich plasma seems to be keeping people out of intensive care.

[Bob Scott 7,758]

4 hours ago, W2DR said:

This may be the single worst piece of advice I've seen in the last few days. What planet are these people living on? There is no hope for anyone who believes that wearing a mask is somehow more dangerous than just walking about unprotected.. These folks all deserve a Darwin Award - it's just another  case of natural selection and survival of the fittest (and smartest).

I think there's a grain of truth in there, though.  It's like a person buying a gun to protect themselves without any training in how/when to use it...it gives some people a false sense of security and bravado that might prevent avoiding situations that could require its use, and then there's the really good chance that the gun is as likely to be taken away and used against that untrained person as it is to protect him.  With proper training and vigilance, however, it does provide additional (but never absolute) protection.

Same principle here...if you slap on a mask and then throw caution to the wind as though the problem is now solved, it might well hurt more than it helps.  But if you mask-up in addition to minimizing going out, maintaining the best practical distance from others possible, keeping your chapped and overwashed hands away from your face, and bathing in alcohol and hydrogen peroxide under a 10kW ultraviolet lamp array after returning to the house, it probably helps some.  🤪

 

[Murmur 3,960]

6 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

We're venturing into a political debate here rather than a Cova-19 one. Probably best I don't continue. The point I raised earlier was about whether debt could be written off but that doesn't seem possible.

Public debt held by central bank is fictional debt, and can be written off without consequences.

This may be hard to grasp for those who still think that a country is run like a company, a sort of pre-keynesian view.

Debt held by CBs has increased around the world after the financial crisis, because many countries did QE.

But you're right that this is political and maybe not apt to be discussed here, even considering it's also off topic.

 

[W2DR 1,862]

1 hour ago, w6kd said:

I think there's a grain of truth in there, though.  It's like a person buying a gun to protect themselves without any training in how/when to use it...it gives some people a false sense of security and bravado that might prevent avoiding situations that could require its use, and then there's the really good chance that the gun is as likely to be taken away and used against that untrained person as it is to protect him.  With proper training and vigilance, however, it does provide additional (but never absolute) protection.

Same principle here...if you slap on a mask and then throw caution to the wind as though the problem is now solved, it might well hurt more than it helps.  But if you mask-up in addition to minimizing going out, maintaining the best practical distance from others possible, keeping your chapped and overwashed hands away from your face, and bathing in alcohol and hydrogen peroxide under a 10kW ultraviolet lamp array after returning to the house, it probably helps some.  🤪

 

Can't argue with that Bob. I guess I just assumed that folks were smart enough to realize that the mask isn't a magic cure-all which, of course, it isn't. The words to which I took particular exception are these... " there is no evidence that face masks will effectively prevent you from becoming infected with the virus." While that MAY be true it is also true that about 1-in-4 victims of the virus are either pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic. There is no doubt that a face mask, if worn by those folks, will go a long ways toward stopping the spread. The problem, of course, is that there is no way to know, short of 100% testing of everyone, to know who has the virus and who doesn't. So, my take is wear the mask...it sure can't hurt as much as it can help.

[birdguy 3,958]

My handyman of 20+years is feeling the pinch.  His restaurant and theater customers can't use him since they are closed.  He was doing roof repair, maintenance, and grounds keeping for them.  He and his son have been doing my yard work and roof and house repairs for over 20 years.  I would hate to see him go under.

 

It's a family business.  Mom and daughter do the light yard work like mowing and weed control and they do the heavy work like roof repairs.  I remember giving his son  model airplane when he was about 6 years old.  He's 26 now.  We have the daughter come over every two week to vacuum and dust.  She has a side business cleaning houses.

 

I am giving him as much work as I can an can afford.  I need a couple of weed elms cut down that I was holding off on and I was going to wait a year to have the back fence replaced.  I think I'll have him do it now.  I talked to my neighbor about it and she agreed to halves on it.  

 

These small independent businesses need help.  And if we can we should try to help them out. 

 

Noel

[n4gix 4,961]

Noel, that's very kind of you to try to help out this family business. My handyman is in his early fifties, but is unmarried and still living with his elderly parents. He is a real "hustler" (in the good sense) and sees most everything as an opportunity.

He is generous to a fault which goes a long ways towards understanding his near constant penury. Obviously the current crisis has severely limited his normal activities. I do hope that the situation doesn't last too much longer. He still owes me money!

[Alan_A 1,650]

5 hours ago, w6kd said:

it gives some people a false sense of security and bravado

And not only for the person wearing the mask.  I've heard a couple of people say that now that they're wearing masks, other people on the street and in stores walk right up to them - they've had to warn them to back off six feet.  There's absolutely no limit to the number of perverse outcomes people are able to generate.

That said... and with all the concerns about masks... better to wear them than not. The likely benefit outweighs the possible harm so, net gain.

[birdguy 3,958]

People are people, not trained seals.  Warnings against smoking doesn't stop them from smoking or vaping.  Warning against taking drugs doesn't stop them from shooting up.  Warning against driving drunk doesn't stop them from drinking and driving.  Warning them against texting while driving doesn't stop them from doing just that.  Why would you think telling them to wear masks would make them all wear masks?  It ain't gonna happen.

On the other hand I can't find a mask in my town.  Nobody has any.  Got on Amazon and any masks I selected won't be delivered until late April or May.  Meanwhile do you expect me not to go out?

So I've taken the attitude if you want me to have  mask then issue me one.

Meanwhile I make necessary trips without a mask since less than 10% of the people I encounter at the WalMart or Albertsons or anywhere else I go are wearing masks.

So all this rhetoric about wearing mask is falling on deaf ears here.  If I had one or could get one I'd wear it.  But I am not going to quarantine myself in my house like hermit because I can't get one.  If you want me to wear a mask then make them available.  And I'm not in the mood to try and make one or wear a bandit type bandana.

Noel

 

[KevinAu 441]

12 minutes ago, birdguy said:

So I've taken the attitude if you want me to have  mask then issue me one.

Noel

 

And that is exactly what needs to happen. Required and issued. That is how it is done in asia. Unless it is required, people are people and participation is anybody’s guess. Unless participation is high, the strategy will not work. Issued because it needs to be a requirement. No excuses for not wearing one.

[martin-w 3,267]

Tell you what disturbs me... a person can be still infectious up top two weeks after symptoms are gone. So what do the UK government advise? Coming out of isolation as soon as your symptoms are gone. In fact that's precisely what Matt Hancock, the UK's Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, did as soon as his symptoms has abated.

 

[martin-w 3,267]

2 hours ago, KevinAu said:

And that is exactly what needs to happen. Required and issued. That is how it is done in asia. Unless it is required, people are people and participation is anybody’s guess. Unless participation is high, the strategy will not work. Issued because it needs to be a requirement. No excuses for not wearing one.

 

Yes, well I'm afraid that's not feasible. It's not feasible because the countries that have provided masks had the common sense to stockpile them well in advance. The UK didn't, the US didn't, many countries didn't.

Not forgetting of course that the people of some countries were wearing  masks when out anyway, prior to nCov making an appearance. Thus, there was no shortage of masks, most people had masks anyway and manufacturers in those nations were set up to manufacture the required numbers of masks.

[G-RFRY 1,735]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/new-car-sales-crash-at-greater-speed-than-in-financial-crisis/ar-BB12d9FO?li=AA54rU

On subject of mask I have to laugh when you see reporters have a go at politicians when they don't bother using them themselves.  

Edited April 6, 2020 by G-RFRY

[MaDDogz 242]

The link goes to cars sales report

4 minutes ago, G-RFRY said:

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/news/new-car-sales-crash-at-greater-speed-than-in-financial-crisis/ar-BB12d9FO?li=AA54rU

On subject of mask I have to laugh when you see reporters have a go at politicians when they don't bother using them themselves.