Do we Cancel Everything? You still Travelling??

[Biggles2010 342]

6 hours ago, martin-w said:

And of course your entire argument relates to lack of preparedness, slowness to react... a failure to act as soon as the threat materialised. And you are correct. If both the UK and US, not to mention a number of other nations, had acted rapidly enough, soon enough and amassed sufficient supplies, stockpiled them, just as South Korea did... we would be in a better position.

Hopefully we will respond quicker for the next pandemic.

We may learn a few things from this, but I would not be too hopeful about having PPE in store in sufficient numbers next time, any more than this one. The bean counters don't like it. 

On NATO exercises in the 60's our chemical warfare suits could not be tried on or used because we didn't have enough stock to replace them. Fast forward to 2003 when chemical weapons were the excuse for the second Gulf war, their was a real problem with the shortage of protective suits, and most other equipment. Nothing changes. It was fortunate that such weapons were not used,

[martin-w 3,234]

39 minutes ago, Biggles2010 said:

The bean counters don't like it. 

 

 

True enough. 

[birdguy 3,943]

Hopefully we will respond quicker for the next pandemic.

I wouldn't bet the farm on it.  As the coronavirus eventually fades into the sunset it will be forgotten and we won't be ready for the next one because it won't be cost-effective and have immediate profitbility. 

History has a habit of repeating itself.

Noel

[Murmur 3,940]

16 hours ago, Chock said:

They have them all on file, ready to go.

In Italy, those pre-obituaries of famous people are colloquially known as "crocodiles":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crocodile_tears

[birdguy 3,943]

Time for a little levity about now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5CNHDeF2xA

Noel

[HiFlyer 9,332]

Pandemic Leads to Shunning and Shaming in Small Towns

Sounds like my area. There is now a very active Facebook page where residents are keeping track of and even following, spying on and reporting out-of-towners.

[Alan_A 1,650]

10 hours ago, martin-w said:

The authorities of a number of nations are culpable for sure. But it's not surprising to be honest. We havent seen anything like this virus for a very long time. Not really surprising that the response of some governments is in disarray. Medical science itself doesnt fully understand nCov yet. And politicians have a number of factors to juggle, their own political agendas, economic considerations etc. 

The only point where I'd disagree - and I largely agree with you, so this is a nuance - is that preparedness didn't really depend on understanding of nCov.  You need to know the specifics of the virus to develop vaccines and therapeutics.  But the broad category nCov fits into - highly infectious, highly contagious airborne flu-like illness - has been the subject of warnings for decades.  And much of the equipment you need - masks, ventilators, a coherent national response plan - is necessary for any respiratory pandemic illness, not just this one. That makes the failure to plan even harder to excuse.

But you're right about the political and economic factors that work against planning.  All of which leads me to ask, though - if the same reasoning applies, why do we have fire departments? Most of the time, buildings don't catch fire.  Most of the time, fire crews and fire apparatus aren't fighting fires.  But we pay for them because we need them for the worst case.  Same should apply here... but apparently it doesn't.  Or maybe the bean counters just haven't noticed the fire department yet, and when they do, they'll file a report about how we can do without them and just hire them back, or grab some buckets, if somebody drops a match or falls asleep with a cigarette. 

I'm sure it's happened, or will happen, somewhere.

[birdguy 3,943]

Sounds like my area. There is now a very active Facebook page where residents are keeping track of and even following, spying on and reporting out-of-towners.

If this takes and expands it could be worse than the coming economic recovery.  When neighbors begin spying on each other and on strangers an attitude of paranoia develops.  We quit trusting each other.  We don't who is friend or foe.  And in a country where firearms are prevalent and concealed carry laws are commonly available the aftermath could be worse than the virus itself.

When we start distrusting our neighbors and out-of-towners we destroy tourism, travel, and trust in each other.  

In 1961 William Lederer wrote a book titled A Nation of Sheep. It discussed the effects of the apathy and ignorance of the American people on United States foreign policy, relations with other nations, and use of foreign aid funds.

Perhaps after the virus emergency is over but the distrust of strangers and reporting on each other a new book could be written title A Nation of Tattle-Tales.

The more I follow tis thread the happier I am I am as old as I am and won't have to live through the aftermath of what the coronavirus fear will have spawned.

Noel 

[HighBypass 2,339]

We already have people spying on each other over here, but we don't have the testing which the USA has..

[Alan_A 1,650]

More reason to be very cautious about official numbers - it seems that people are dying in New York City at ten times the normal rate, but none of the at-home deaths are being counted as COVID-19-related because they haven't been tested or diagnosed.

So it's not just the testing figures that are screwed up - it's also the fatalities, which you'd thing would be unambiguous, but no such luck.

We're continuing to deal with the absolutely blind and with both hands tied behind our backs.

[Alan_A 1,650]

3 minutes ago, HighBypass said:

We already have people spying on each other over here, but we don't have the testing which the USA has..

The USA doesn't have the testing the USA has - despite any reports to the contrary. There's more than there was but it's still running way, way behind the caseload.

[HiFlyer 9,332]

48 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Sounds like my area. There is now a very active Facebook page where residents are keeping track of and even following, spying on and reporting out-of-towners.

If this takes and expands it could be worse than the coming economic recovery.  When neighbors begin spying on each other and on strangers an attitude of paranoia develops.  We quit trusting each other.  We don't who is friend or foe.  And in a country where firearms are prevalent and concealed carry laws are commonly available the aftermath could be worse than the virus itself.

When we start distrusting our neighbors and out-of-towners we destroy tourism, travel, and trust in each other.  

In 1961 William Lederer wrote a book titled A Nation of Sheep. It discussed the effects of the apathy and ignorance of the American people on United States foreign policy, relations with other nations, and use of foreign aid funds.

Perhaps after the virus emergency is over but the distrust of strangers and reporting on each other a new book could be written title A Nation of Tattle-Tales.

The more I follow tis thread the happier I am I am as old as I am and won't have to live through the aftermath of what the coronavirus fear will have spawned.

Noel 

It's all pretty pointless/silly to me, but many people seem pretty rabid and the page is very active. My niece sends me links every day, which I may or may not take a glance at, depending how bored I am.

But yes, there has been an uptick in gun purchases (open-carry state) lots of paranoia, and a push to close down the state and block out-of-towners. It all makes me feel that the veneer of civilization is even thinner than my growing cynicism suspected.

https://www.abc27.com/news/local/not-so-welcome-sign-at-new-jersey-pennsylvania-border/

[HighBypass 2,339]

Not just state-by-state paranoia, HiFlyer. A few pages back Fr.Bill posted up a map of his state which showed numbers of cases per county; some counties had zero cases. What's the betting that some folks might start barricading county lines soon, if it hasn't already happened?

[birdguy 3,943]

The fear, the blame game, the paranoia.  You see it right here in this thread.  Facebook.  Websites like this one. People are blowing this way out of proportion.

Admittedly some areas are having a worse time than others.  But as of this afternoon there were 393,493 cases in the United States.  That's 0.13% of the population.  You chances of NOT getting it so far are 99%.  There have been 12,561 deaths due to the virus.  That's 3% of the cases.  So even if you do come down with it you have a 97% chance of surviving it if you live in the United States.

They sky is not falling due to the virus but it may well be falling due to the panic and hysteria.

When will we see the first case of someone shooting a person and claiming self defense because the victim got closer than 6 feet to the shooter or coughed near him/her?  As this thing continues the paranoia is just going to get worse. 

It's time t take a step back.  Take a deep breather, and start acting logically.

I'm in a high risk group but I'm going to continue going to the store, meeting friends, while taking REASONABLE safeguards.  Sunday I cooked a roast beef dinner and we invited another elderly couple over.  We ate, enjoyed the conversation, and we had a good time without obsessing over this virus thing.

Many of you are going to disagree with me.  But I refuse to sequester myself and alter my habits when I have a 99% chance of NOT contracting it and a very good chance of surviving it if I do.  I could also obsess over getting hit by a drunk or texting driver or getting hit by stray bullet from deranged person trying to shoot up a super market or getting equine encephalitis from a  mosquito bite (I am a mosquito magnet and they will be around soon) .  I choose not to worry about it.  And if you want me to wear a face mask, issue me one.

Noel 

Edited April 7, 2020 by birdguy

[HiFlyer 9,332]

21 minutes ago, birdguy said:

Many of you are going to disagree with me.

Well, yeah.......!

When the state of NY starts talking about having so many dead bodies, they are thinking about temporarily burying them in Central Park..... well, things like that are gonna attract my attention.

Right now, one of the reasons things are not completely out of control is that people are talking this social distancing stuff very seriously. I suspect if everyone followed your apparent example, we would see quite a change in the statistics you are mentioning, and I don't mean happy changes.