@HiFlyer - The problem is definitely thorny - and it has a long history, with a lot of debate.

I agree with your take.  I'd say there's nothing wrong with asking tough questions and being conservative about restrictions (i.e. make sure they're necessary and make sure they're time-limited). But a sizable number of people seem to have forgotten that it's not just a matter of rights, it's a matter of responsibilities. 

If they were just going to put themselves at risk, it'd be one thing. But the virus isn't going to respect any such boundaries.  It'll be happy to jump from the "I've got my rights" crew to the store clerks to the family members to the paramedics... and so on 'til it hits the rest of us.

They may think we're not interconnected. But viruses always prove otherwise.

 

 

Edited April 9, 20206 yr by Alan_A

If I lived up in Gallup, or in New Youk I would be taking these precautions more seriously.  But living in a 6,000sqmi county that has 16 cases I'm more relaxed about it.  When I go out and about it's mostly to people I know who have not travelled.  I go to a supermarket and as likely as not I'll run into someone I now.  I know most of the checkout stand checkers.  If things start to get worse I'll take more precautions as conditions warrant.  Most everyone I know feels much the same way.

The kids are out of school and I saw a group of them paying touch football in the park across the street from my house.  They weren't wearing masks or practicing social distancing.  They were touching each other, huddling, shoulder to shoulder on the line, and they all touched the football.

Until things get worse nothing is going to change here.  If it does most will comply.

Noel 

By the time you realize things are ‘worse’, it’s too late. They’re already going to get much worse, whether you begin following the recommendations or not at that point.

28 minutes ago, birdguy said:

If I lived up in Gallup, or in New Youk I would be taking these precautions more seriously.  But living in a 6,000sqmi county that has 16 cases I'm more relaxed about it.  When I go out and about it's mostly to people I know who have not travelled.  I go to a supermarket and as likely as not I'll run into someone I now.  I know most of the checkout stand checkers.  If things start to get worse I'll take more precautions as conditions warrant.  Most everyone I know feels much the same way.

The kids are out of school and I saw a group of them paying touch football in the park across the street from my house.  They weren't wearing masks or practicing social distancing.  They were touching each other, huddling, shoulder to shoulder on the line, and they all touched the football.

Until things get worse nothing is going to change here.  If it does most will comply.

Noel 

 

16 minutes ago, KevinAu said:

By the time you realize things are ‘worse’, it’s too late. They’re already going to get much worse, whether you begin following the recommendations or not at that point.

Exactly. If there are 16 known cases, how many unknown cases are out there, slowly spreading the virus wider and wider as people obliviously believe they are safe?

When/if some of these supposedly isolated oasis abruptly reach critical mass, it's the people whose calls for social distancing were complacently ignored who will have to come to the rescue, as these same isolated areas almost certainly won't have the resources to handle a large spike.

Then we will see the tearful stories on the news about family members fighting for life, and possibly feel guilty about the combination of sympathy.... and possibly some slight exasperation as well, as we watch the first responders leap into action to save those that could have done more to save themselves.

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/surprising-covid-19-hot-spots-coronavirus-threatens-rural/story?id=69940146

Edited April 9, 20206 yr by HiFlyer

16 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

...before the FA and the Premier League persuade the media to start campaigning for soccer to start up again....

Then, when a resurgence of the pandemic happens, the footy grounds will get turned into morgues...

I too hope the governments of the world don't cave in until the virus is either eradicated or successfully vaccinated against. 

• Some doctors are trying to reduce their reliance on ventilators for coronavirus patients because of reports of abnormally high death rates for patients using the machines, The Associated Press reported on Wednesday.
•  
• New York City officials have said at least 80% of coronavirus patients who were on ventilators in the city died, the AP reported. Unusually high death rates have also been recorded elsewhere in the US and the world.
•  
• Ventilators are typically used only for the worst-affected patients, and there are no drugs approved to treat COVID-19, so this could help explain the higher death rate.
•  
• But doctors have also said ventilators can damage the lungs — and while the machines may be an effective way to treat other respiratory illnesses, some are looking for alternative treatments.

Noel

14 hours ago, birdguy said:

If I lived up in Gallup, or in New Youk I would be taking these precautions more seriously.  But living in a 6,000sqmi county that has 16 cases I'm more relaxed about it.  When I go out and about it's mostly to people I know who have not travelled.

Now I understand your location I can see why you are more relaxed.

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

• Some doctors are trying to reduce their reliance on ventilators for coronavirus patients because of reports of abnormally high death rates for patients using the machines, The Associated Press reported on Wednesday.

 

I heard a UK consultant discussing this recently,  and the ethics involved. Whether it was better to allow patients to stay off forced ventilation when their prospects were so poor they were likely to die, and just allow things to take their natural course. The reasoning was that intubation and forced ventilation is a very unpleasant process at any time, and often may not improve the outcome. And he also mentioned the point Noel quoted about resultant lung damage causing more problems in surviving patients.

A difficult dilemma, but with so many deaths occurring, doctors still want to make the process as dignified as possible.

Edited April 9, 20206 yr by Biggles2010

When they closed the gyms because of this corona virus I bought my own stationary bicycle.  A Scwinn that has a fixed pedal resistance.  I'm doing two 10 minute sessions a day on it.  10 minutes is abut 3 miles for my pedal speed according to the readout.  I ain't as young and as fit as I used to be.

I have a table with a TV set on a table in front of the bike which makes exercising less tedious and boring.

Besides your masks and social distancing don't forget physical fitness is also very important for warding off diseases of all kinds.

Noel

Edited April 9, 20206 yr by birdguy

38 minutes ago, birdguy said:

10 minutes is abut 3 miles for my pedal speed according to the readout.  I ain't as young and as fit as I used to be.

Wow, that’s 18 mph Noel. That’s pretty good. I used to be a competitive cyclist and we’d average around 22-25 mph for our 100 mile races, so you doing 18 mph for 10 minutes  is pretty good.

Oh, I misspoke there.  I did three miles in 20 minutes.  A mile and a half for each 10 minute session.  Sorry about that. 

Noel

Everything helps, and I would guess that's more exercise than many people achieve, looking at the size of much of the population.

Hmmmmmmm.... My post on religion was more timely than I thought. Does NY of all places really need this? https://nypost.com/2020/04/07/hasidic-jews-hold-another-funeral-amid-coronavirus-pandemic/ 😔

I've often found cause to wonder about the sanity of my fellow human beans...... Sometimes we're just self inflicted tragedies, waiting to happen.

So..... maybe a miracle will occur and all these guys will be safe, but my cynicism says doctors will shortly be treating all too many of them, in a city already on the brink.

 

Edited April 9, 20206 yr by HiFlyer

3 hours ago, birdguy said:

don't forget physical fitness

Absolutely.

I bought a Nordic Trak cross-country ski machine - the old, low-tech mechanical kind.  Good timing - I thought I was just being conservative about public spaces but two days later my building closed its gym.

I haven't used a Nordic Trak since I was first married and couldn't afford a gym... which, now that I think of it...

Everything old is new again.

For anybody who needs variety, a lot of gyms and yoga studios and martial arts places and such are streaming their classes online  Good way to mix up your routine.

Here's the latest from epidemiologist Kateyln Jetelina - very good indications of possible curve-flattening in New York - as well as a warning that if we don't keep our heads down, a second surge is more than possible.

Keep on staying home - it's working.

Edited April 9, 20206 yr by Alan_A

1 hour ago, birdguy said:

Oh, I misspoke there.  I did three miles in 20 minutes.  A mile and a half for each 10 minute session.  Sorry about that. 

Noel

That’s still not bad Noel. Much better than doing nothing but sitting on the couch.

I don’t cycle anymore because Texas doesn’t have streets with super wide shoulders like when I lived in Arizona and with all the people working their smart phones while driving, I just don’t feel comfortable riding on streets anymore. 

A few years ago I switched to competitive running and enjoy it also but it’s a lot harder on the body than cycling ever was.

I remember reading an article about Lance Armstrong after he got banned from cycling and he switched to running. Even as good a shape he was in, doping or not, he said that running a marathon was way harder than any of the stages in the Tour de France, even day after day stages.