Another problem of using ADS-B data in a flightsim is what happens on the ground. The sim has to take control of AI aircraft until they take off and after they touch down. Now here's the problem. Simulating from touchdown to taxiing in to the stand, that's pretty easy to do. But takeoff is another story. The sim can assume that every real world flight is more or less on schedule and perform a synthetic taxi out and takeoff. Then it can hope that the aircraft is airborne somewhere near the airport. Some really clever 3rd party developers have attacked this problem for both P3d5 and XP11 and so far, the results are far from realistic. Aircraft both disappear and hop from gates to the air.

An option is to also use ADS-B tracking while aircraft are taxiing. This introduces another issue, as specific airports and airlines do not require that ADS-B transmitters be active while on the ground. And as has already been pointed out, ADS-B often does not pinpoint the aircraft within a few feet of its actual position. This would result in the sim showing AI aircraft taxiing on the grass and into buildings. Lastly, the sim's ATC communication has to be highly linked to ADS-B position. The use of live ATC broadcasts is always an option, but unfortunately, some countries now prohibit retransmission of ATC communications and that leaves major gaps worldwide.

The concept is great, but the implementation is tricky.

I did want to add another unrelated point. Aircraft owners may now have their ADS-B information blocked from public display. The aircraft still shows up on sites like Flightaware, but no information is displayed as to the registration, airline, aircraft type, etc..

How much will this cost?

5 minutes ago, rickgo said:

How much will this cost?

Live Traffic? Nothing. The sim itself? No idea, but probably 60USD

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Tuskin38

47 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 

 

Flightaware uses the standard ADS-B transponder to track aircraft.  ADS-B data is lacking in many parts of the world (there's another thread here related to that) and particularly over the oceans where only satellite ADS-B is possible.  Many GA and military aircraft do not have ADS-B transponders, or choose to turn them off as they are not required.  Hence, there are many aircraft actually flying but missing from the data.

Edit: Interesting read: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_dependent_surveillance_–_broadcast

ADSB out has been mandatory for GA aircraft in most (but not all) US airspace since the beginning of this year, and a lot of those aircraft do show up in the maps on Flightaware and FR24.

The problem is that unless those aircraft are flying on an IFR flight plan, there will usually be no information as to departure or destination, and often aircraft type or registration info is missing as well. Position, altitude and heading is about all that is typically seen. Still, if those VFR GA flights are injected into the sim environment, it would emulate the situation often found in r/w flying, where ATC might point out VFR traffic with the caveat “type unknown and altitude unverified”

58 minutes ago, Gridley said:

 Many GA and military aircraft do not have ADS-B transponders, or choose to turn them off as they are not required.  Hence, there are many aircraft actually flying but missing from the data.

Maybe it's different in my country. If I look on FlightAware, I see lots of gliders circling around and a fair amount of GA. Could be that it's legally required here.

There's an option for AI Traffic (you can see it in the MP video), so I imagine custom ai will still be an option for those who prefer that

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Tuskin38

is actual confirmed that FA will use "live"-traffic? FA has a huge database of flights based on the live data as well as data provided by airlines and so on, so my guess is that based on this data the aircraft will be injected to the Sim and the rest will be handled by the internal system. At least I hope so - since it would be a shame to "loose" an airplane because it is no longer tracked by FA live data.

Edited July 3, 20205 yr by Kaiii3

So MS is going to provide us with real-time traffic, which means models for the A318, A319, A320, A321, A220, A330, A340, A380 with all the engine combinations and variants that suggests, and then all the Boeings, Embraers, etc., etc. And then all of the myriad of liveries to go with them. If not, it's not going to be very realistic, is it? I think that's way too much to expect.

33 minutes ago, Coneman said:

So MS is going to provide us with real-time traffic, which means models for the A318, A319, A320, A321, A220, A330, A340, A380 with all the engine combinations and variants that suggests, and then all the Boeings, Embraers, etc., etc. And then all of the myriad of liveries to go with them. If not, it's not going to be very realistic, is it? I think that's way too much to expect.

Liveries are a whole different set of issues (unfortunately), but is it really so crazy that a project with a staff and budget this large could model (and for AI, so not in perfect detail) the roughly 20 most widely used airliners?

That's not to say they will do it -- and I'm not in the Alpha so I really don't know -- but it doesn't seem like a crazy idea to me. Why bother partnering with FlightAware for hyper-accurate traffic if you then show every flight as a totally generic A320?

James

50 minutes ago, Coneman said:

So MS is going to provide us with real-time traffic, which means models for the A318, A319, A320, A321, A220, A330, A340, A380 with all the engine combinations and variants that suggests, and then all the Boeings, Embraers, etc., etc. And then all of the myriad of liveries to go with them. If not, it's not going to be very realistic, is it? I think that's way too much to expect.

Why would they bother doing that?

It's the sort of thing the freeware market will have sorted in a matter of months..MS is there to provide a solid base platform not simulate every little thing.

If I remember correctly (haven't used it in years) I once implemented once a set of a larger number of different (not so sophisticated) models airliners that were used for AI. But from a distance it looked good. Also different liveries should be no issue... could be a community thing to add them. I hope this is possible.
For my X-Plane, planes I can get almost any livery I want... or at least the famous ones.

im flying in P3D ith real traffic and lorbylivetraffic and/or PSXSeecontraffic, and i have all that myriad of planes and it works!!!

so im sure fs2020 is going to do it!!!

12 hours ago, jabloomf1230 said:

I did want to add another unrelated point. Aircraft owners may now have their ADS-B information blocked from public display. The aircraft still shows up on sites like Flightaware, but no information is displayed as to the registration, airline, aircraft type, etc..

I have been noticing a spike in this aswell.

I hereby pledge that I will not buy MSFS2020 unless Orbit, Pacifica and World Travel Airlines are included in the liveries! 😆