9 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

and this is where the problem lies Robert. You expect A2A level aircraft out of the box. That's never going to happen.  Default aircraft were never meant to be payware quality. Except that and move on. I think the quality is definitely higher and set a new standard but like everything, it does need a bit love. Specially in the avionics area. Flight dynamic wise, they are very good and not they are not wobbling up/down and left/right like you have mention so many times when you just tweaks your controller sensitivity settings.  they fly very well.  I have 5 more days to wait before we can have a more in-depth discussion about why I think you are wrong. I might even do a few videos. I am not a real life pilot. I am a flight simmer all through and through. So that my make any of my comments invalid to you. 

I don't expect A2A quality out of the box. But if it is fair to expect reasonably good flight characteristics. After all, everyone is raving (quite rightly) about the fantastic scenery, and very impressive weather. No-one has said a high standard of scenery is only the preserve of third party developers. I don't understand why the very essence of a flight simulation (ie FLIGHT) can only be achieved by 3rd parties. It is after all a FLIGHT Simulator!!!

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by robert young
typo

17 minutes ago, Concodroid said:

  it just feeds into the stereotype Avsim has anyway

Correction : Into the Avsim stereotype popular in some Reddit sewers 😁

3 minutes ago, robert young said:

I don't expect A2A quality out of the box. But if it is fair to expect reasonably good flight characteristics. After all, everyone is raving (quite rightly) about the fantastic scenery, and very impressive weather. No-one has said a high standard of scenery is only the preserve of third party developers. I don't understand why it the very essence of a flight simulation (ie FLIGHT) can only be achieved by 3rd parties. It is after all a FLIGHT Simulator!!!

Wait until you have it before trying to judge so critically , all I'm saying. No one has the latest build so let's see the state it's delivered in before making judgements. That seems fair to me. 

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by joec63

3 hours ago, robert young said:

 . I don't understand why it the very essence of a flight simulation (ie FLIGHT) can only be achieved by 3rd parties. It is after all a FLIGHT Simulator!!!

All the more true that great aerodynamics were promised by the FS20 team from the start.  

 

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by Dominique_K

3 minutes ago, robert young said:

I don't expect A2A quality out of the box. But if it is fair to expect reasonably good flight characteristics. After all, everyone is raving (quite rightly) about the fantastic scenery, and very impressive weather. No-one has said a high standard of scenery is only the preserve of third party developers. I don't understand why the very essence of a flight simulation (ie FLIGHT) can only be achieved by 3rd parties. It is after all a FLIGHT Simulator!!!

because the flight sim would cost 5000 $ to acquire if they spent the hundred and hundred of hours to get 22 aircraft to that level. Also MS/Asobo doesn't want to kill the huge eco system that 3rd party dev have establish over the last 10 years. They want to allow everyone to come in and make money like they did with XP11, P3D and FSX. It's a brilliant approach. They build the sandbox, bring your own toys. What a beautiful sandbox it is. 

@robert young I really do hope you will attend the twitch stream Q&A tonight and direct a good question to Asobo. Would be a shame if you let the opertunity slip away. 

Robert as I've said before please wait till its on your PC then share all your insight then. 

Control inputs on my HOTAS Warthog are totally different to my old one, change the sensitivity again makes a huge difference. So please spend some time with the new sim then come back as constantly criticising it when you have not even got it starts to come across a bit wrong, sorry.

DCS is a good e.g, fly a F-18 on default setting and....well GL, set up the axis/curves and BANG and totally different aircraft.

And I won't even start how TPR are over my saitek. It make every aircraft feel and respond totally different.

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by Nyxx

17 minutes ago, robert young said:

 But if it is fair to expect reasonably good flight characteristics

Completely agree with you. I don’t understand why people always try to delegate everything on third parties. You are not paying to a third party, you are paying to Asobo/MS, so is perfectly understandable to expect default things work better than on current sims. We are in 2020, we are not talking about a 2000 sim anymore.

Then, If you want to expend 2000€ on airports and aircrafts, no problem. But let people have a nice default sim also. 

Same goes for default big airports. Need some work and love on them. 

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by aleex

5 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

DCS is a good e.g, fly a F-18 on default setting and....well GL, set up the axis/curves and BANG and totally different aircraft.

Less or more sensitivity for the DCS F-18?

Am at work but off my head set to 25 on roll and pitch. Anywhere from 15-30. 25 works well for me, 0 is a joke.

Try A2A refueling at 0? if you can I will take my hat of to you 25 and all is smooth and nice. A real world F-18 pilot said the second he tried DCS F-18 was how ridiculous the sensitivity was.

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by Nyxx

The funniest thing is there are things that are not model in the default aircraft that I know will drive people here nuts and I can tell you none of that is anything that was brought up by Robert and others. Things that Asobo mention is on the roadmap to fix in a future patch (not sure if this is going to make launch).  One of the thing you might have seen on a YT video is that your can't create a curve in the controller sensitivity. only adjust the sensitivity settings. Now this is something you should be asking Asobo to fix. Now the twitchiness of the airplane. That's not an issue at all. . Like everything else on AVSIM, we take the smallest issue possible and make it a 40 pages thread of people who haven't touch the game yet. 

Lol, I was busy putting together a new DIY camera / drone PTZXY joystick plus sliders, to use with MFS (should fun to control the camera / drone with my left hand while flying with my right), and just now I poured myself a Martini, picked up my tablet and ... in the mean time you guys added four more pages of plane wobbling discussion!? 🙂

I'll start reading now ...

26 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

Like everything else on AVSIM, we take the smallest issue possible and make it a 40 pages thread of people who haven't touch the game yet. 

That's hardly fair, now is it? The avsim forum members that are free to post do not know the ins and out of the beta, and you guys who do are under NDA. So we muddle along the best we can 😉

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by n4gix
Removed unnecessary long quote!

4 minutes ago, fogboundturtle said:

One of the thing you might have seen on a YT video is that your can't create a curve in the controller sensitivity. only adjust the sensitivity settings. Now this is something you should be asking Asobo to fix. Now the twitchiness of the airplane. That's not an issue at all. . Like everything else on AVSIM, we take the smallest issue possible and make it a 40 pages thread of people who haven't touch the game yet. 

It's a big shame curves are not in there, they are huge how an aircraft handles.

Edited August 13, 20205 yr by Nyxx

2 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

It's a big shame curves are not in there, they are huge how an aircraft handles.

I think I saw a video yesterday or the day before showing a control sensitivity curve menu, unless I was dreaming.