46 minutes ago, dukeav said:

Scenery, terrain, airports, airport services, weather, camera management, all are at next gen level just out-of-the-box in MSFS.

I personally don’t see myself buying anything in these categories for MSFS. The base product is already too good in them.

I absolutely disagree with your premise.  Scenery is the only area that MSFS has so-far demonstrated something new and interesting.  Wait a few months when you're flying over lush green fields in late autumn, or in winter when you have snow overlaid on the same greenery.

The terrain in MSFS morphs as you approach it, just as it did in the ESP-based sims.  So do the textures overlaid on it.

The airports are all over the map w/r/t quality, but certainly none of them, including the enhanced ones, comes close to the quality of a FlightBeam or Flytampa offering.  My home airport (KCOS) has disjointed terrain seams around a foot high on the taxiways and ramps, and the taxi lights near complex intersections are a mess, running into the paved surfaces.  Next-gen level?  No, not seeing it.

The airport services...well, again, nothing in the base sim anything near to what GSX does.  Loaders for cargo acft?  Well-behaved jetways like we have in SODE?  Nope.

Weather--well, right now MSFS weather doesn't even work at all much of the time.  And even as-designed there is no historical wx, no ability to get detailed enroute data for flight planning, and a weather radar that shows storms where there are only puffy cumulus clouds and which does not simulate antenna elevation.

Camera management--I wouldn't trade MSFS default camera management for OpusFSI's, where I have easy-to-manage custom cameras for each plane without need to edit .cfg files etc.

People keep proclaiming the existence of cutting edge new capabilities where none are, at least so far, apparent.

8 minutes ago, w6kd said:

I absolutely disagree with your premise.  Scenery is the only area that MSFS has so-far demonstrated something new and interesting.  Wait a few months when you're flying over lush green fields in late autumn, or in winter when you have snow overlaid on the same greenery.

The terrain in MSFS morphs as you approach it, just as it did in the ESP-based sims.  So do the textures overlaid on it.

The airports are all over the map w/r/t quality, but certainly none of them, including the enhanced ones, comes close to the quality of a FlightBeam or Flytampa offering.  My home airport (KCOS) has disjointed terrain seams around a foot high on the taxiways and ramps, and the taxi lights near complex intersections are a mess, running into the paved surfaces.  Next-gen level, no, not seeing it.

The airport services...well, again, nothing in the base sim anything near to what GSX does.  Loaders for cargo acft?  Well-behaved jetways like we have in SODE?  Nope.

Weather--well, right now MSFS weather doesn't even work at all much of the time.  And even as-designed there is no historical wx, no ability to get detailed enroute data for flight planning, and a weather radar that shows storms where there are only puffy cumulus clouds and which does not simulate antenna elevation.

Camera management--I wouldn't trade MSFS default camera management for OpusFSI's, where I have easy-to-manage custom cameras for each plane without need to edit .cfg files etc.

People keep proclaiming the existence of cutting edge new capabilities where none are, at least so far, apparent.

That’s not what I meant by next-gen. Base MSFS is next-gen compared to Base P3D. There is no comparison in that regard.

The question is that is someone going to pay extra for GSX, camera management etc in MSFS? When it already does a decent job. Compared to P3D which offer nothing out of the box.

10 minutes ago, dukeav said:

That’s not what I meant by next-gen. Base MSFS is next-gen compared to Base P3D. There is no comparison in that regard.

The question is that is someone going to pay extra for GSX, camera management etc in MSFS? When it already does a decent job. Compared to P3D which offer nothing out of the box.

The difference in quality/capability between the base sims has *never* been the reason people buy add-ons--it's the improvement in added quality/capability over the simulator platform in question that counts when considering an add-on purchase. 

You are suggesting that MSFS is "good enough" that the value-added brought by airport, terrain, airport services, weather, and camera management add-ons would not appeal to potential customers.  I absolutely disagree...I think there are many who are not satisfied with the default capabilities and would pay for quality add-ons to improve them, as there have been for years.

Until that catalogue of quality add-ons and capabilities actually exists, the P3D ecosystem still brings a lot to the table that MSFS does not.

52 minutes ago, w6kd said:

The difference in quality/capability between the base sims has *never* been the reason people buy add-ons--it's the improvement in added quality/capability over the simulator platform in question that counts when considering an add-on purchase. 

You are suggesting that MSFS is "good enough" that the value-added brought by airport, terrain, airport services, weather, and camera management add-ons would not appeal to potential customers.  I absolutely disagree...I think there are many who are not satisfied with the default capabilities and would pay for quality add-ons to improve them, as there have been for years.

Until that catalogue of quality add-ons and capabilities actually exists, the P3D ecosystem still brings a lot to the table that MSFS does not.

Sure, there are people not happy with what is in there.

There is a threshold of features/quality beyond which its appealing to buy an addon. IMO in FSFS case, that threshold is very very high for a vast majority of the audience.

 

1 hour ago, dukeav said:

I am not buying anything of that sort in MSFS. There is no need. And I bough a ton of stuff in P3D. That’s the point. 

Hmm.. I just bought an airport, and an airplane for MSFS.. that is week one 🙂

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by Bert Pieke

400 developers working already with MSFS lamao.. Ok..

Call me when the SDK is completed to start..

😉

 

2 hours ago, dukeav said:

Sure, there are people not happy with what is in there.

There is a threshold of features/quality beyond which its appealing to buy an addon. IMO in FSFS case, that threshold is very very high for a vast majority of the audience.

 

The threshold may be high, but its at least a static market if not a growing market above that threshold.  It almost can't NOT grow with the new sim.

 

3 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

Hmm.. I just bought an airport, and an airplane for MSFS.. that is week one 🙂

I must have quite a lot of addons in P3D, and have zero interest in spending anything on MSFS, except for aircraft. 

And that's my next year 🙂

8 hours ago, Wobbie said:

I doubt very much if LM would loose any of their corporate training clients such as RedBird & others to an entertainment product. Those developing professional training products will stay, the others will adapt.So the P3D professional ecosystem will stay.

Finally someone gets it.... 

7 hours ago, DaveCT2003 said:

Well, I ran Nortons and my P3D Ecosystem was fine, not risks detected due to MSFS or anything else!

 

 

Sorry, I just couldn't resist.

 

You missed the fact that Norton *is* the risk...

1 hour ago, simbol said:

400 developers working already with MSFS lamao.. Ok..

Call me when the SDK is completed to start..

😉

 

 Maybe they already called real devs...

25 minutes ago, Mgard78 said:

 Maybe they already called real devs...

It amaze me how people write sometimes.. Research more before writing such nonsense in the future.

S.

Edited August 29, 20205 yr by simbol

When is Avsim going to wise up the OP makes a post then exit`s , baiting the forum it is now going on all over Avsim, users should use the sim they want and leave other to there sim.

7 hours ago, dukeav said:

Scenery, terrain, airports, airport services, weather, camera management, all are at next gen level just out-of-the-box in MSFS.

If anyone thinks that these areas/aspects of the sim cannot be improved, I believe that they are sadly mistaken.

Scenery, ORBX is aready doing it.

Airports, Look at the few devs who have already released airports.

Airport services.  These can be vastly improved over the base model which does not come close to Xplanes' "better pushback" or P3Ds GSX

You may have a valid point with the WX but even that is being criticised by some (mostly "live" aspects)

Camera management, whilst good, is not very intuitive.  A basic manual could fix that though.

Yes they are next gen level, BUT, they can, and will, be improved.

And do not rule either P3D or XPlane out of existence either, both are proceeding with ongoing development and may yet surprise us all.  

I keep saying "enjoy them all" and hope for the best for all of them.

Tony 

3 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

Finally someone gets it..

I very firmly believe a lot of people have "got it" but we may well be the silent majority.  I think further, that people who have firmly expressed the opinion that P3D and Xplane are dead and already deleted from their systems will continue believing that, despite any evidence to the contrary.  Such is life.

My cup is half full and both P3D and XPlane will remain an integral part of my simming experience until I do NOT enjoy them. I guess the same applies to MSFS. Nothing will get deleted here until that happens. I may well not be on this planet when that happens LOL

Tony