41 minutes ago, G-RFRY said:

MSFS may end up like FSX a lot of new gamers came on board as the sim was well publicised but when the novelty wore of they left for the next big game, on steam the most number of users in play in 24hrs on FSX since release on steam less than 6,000. You may see more for MSFS for the first year but when it settles it will show what a niche product flight sim is. unlike gamers that can have 500,000 in a game.  

No matter what the number is when it stabilises, it will still be much, much bigger than P3D's. In the end, that is what matters for most 3PDs.

There are many new players on the road creating freeware scenery and aircraft mods for the MSFS. Not only a few of them are of questionable quality.
But the MSFS community applauts and is excepting almost everything. The large availabilty of freeware will depress market prices for profesional designed
products. So my guess is, that some of the companies who do not care the P3D market anymore because of the MSFS hype will reufully return. But the
community might not forget their absence. Nothing is more expensive than shortsightedness.

Ruediger

7 hours ago, micstatic said:

And also many of your airports haven’t been updated in ages. So it’s reasonable sales have slowed down there.  

Key sentence here is "in ages". Nobody seemed to mind, until precisely AFTER E3 2019. And the same thing happened to every scenery developer I've been in contact with ( you might guess who they are ).

KORD had the bad luck to have been released after that event, and didn't sell what it *deserved* to sell, considering the airport appeal and its quality. Now is recovering, and that's only thanks to MSFS so, what MSFS took, MSFS gave back. 

I don`t think the numbers in P3D have ever been that big, but that has not stopped LM from continuing development and will not now, in the end the user uses what he likes, some developers may move away from P3D someone else will fill the space, i remember when it was just a handful of dev`s supporting flight sim, some only since FSX was released. 

Edited September 21, 20205 yr by G-RFRY

All I want for Christmas is complete MSFS SDK.. in the meantime I am really happy for all scenery developers who are in luck and able to be able to do content for MSFS..

S.

23 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

This happens when one doesn't like the outcome when there's tension between what one wants to be true, and what actually is true.

Happens in many other real life situations especially this year 

There are some developers out there who were/are going to put out products for FSX:SE let alone the latest P3D. I, for one hope that they follow through on that  - specifically DC Designs (Concorde) and Aeroplane Heaven Ctrl-Ezy products (they were producing a Jaguar and, looking at their FB page, a Javelin !!, Sabreliner (I think..) and others). Granted that AH are getting on board with the new sim, but I'm a relatively patient man (FSX isn't dead to me and I can wait) and as far as I can tell, there's nothing on their FB to say that the FSX/P3D stuff has been canned.. 🍻

The developer makes the airport and then he converts it to the platform he wants it for.

Some changes have to be made as one platform uses different features/techniques than others.

Imho selling for more platforms will be the most profitable ( after the MSFS hype lies down )....

 

8 hours ago, GCBraun said:

No matter what the number is when it stabilises, it will still be much, much bigger than P3D's. In the end, that is what matters for most 3PDs.

Numbers of so called uses are one thing but the important thing would be how many of those MS2020 users will spend money on high quality scenery and airplanes to fly. I think that the percentage will be much much lower than Prepar3d users. Many of those big numbers for FS 2020 are made up of folks that are just trying things out for a couple of bucks on steam and they will most likely revert back to P3D or X-pain because at least at this point, the MS product is not much more than a fancy Bing Map viewer. The other group of little johnnies will soon tire of crashing planes into buildings and go away. Each Dev has to decide for themselves but having seen MS crash and burn with the Flight mess and the fact that MS can just pull the plug like with FSX would give me pause if I were in their shoes. 

7 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

The other group of little johnnies will soon tire of crashing planes into buildings and go away. 

Not quite politically correct, but the point is taken

23 minutes ago, Boeingnut said:

Not quite politically correct, but the point is taken

Was it a point?

I think if anything, rather than diminishment, developers should be expecting not one but several incoming floods of new users on the MSFS side.

The first being when the much maligned (On Avsim) VR arrives, and the second when it hits the Xbone.

I'm very interested to see how it all turns out, but I suspect our usual casual dismissal of gamers (and so-called kids) will do nothing to shield our little island from the consequences of the return of flight simulation to the mainstream, this time.

It is an interesting time for flight simulator and I am not sure how it will all play out. There are many variables and certainly more than one direction that it could go. I can imagine it must be a hard time for developers who need to navigate a more complex and less obvious landscape. I can certainly appreciate why they would want to focus on MSFS for a while.

P3D is for me a very sound, reliable and immersive platform for simulation, but especially for more complex aircraft and IFR. It is also a mature platform with so many add on aircraft and sceneries. Yesterday I went back and looked and I have purchased only 4 products for P3D in the last year, and I am someone who historically spent some 600 to 800 dollars a year on such addons. But this is not because I felt P3D was becoming obsolete or that I did not want to invest in it because another platform was coming. I have just purchased pretty much everything I want. I have a good selection of complex aircraft and I am still learning their systems, and I have a long way to go. I have virtually every airport I would fly to and as much as I enjoy this hobby I just can't justify purchasing scenery I will never fly to -- I have done it and I have regretted it each time. So I wonder if sales will not slow just because many people, like me, have most of what they need/want and are now enjoying learning and simulating. This is also a consequence of having a mature platform that has had years of development behind it. In so many ways, P3D is complete for me, barring some future development that transforms the platform I can't see spending much more for it, probably at best it will be like like this past year, at most a handful of purchases.

Now, I have also purchased MSFS and I find myself really enjoying it. I do find the environment more convincing and therefore more immersive than P3D. But at this point it is only useful for VFR flights; I have not even once bothered to load a jet aircraft in that simulator - but I knew this is what it was when I bought it so I do not have any regrets. But, enjoying it for what it is, I am interested in addons for that simulator and will certainly buy them. So for someone like me right now there is more market in MSFS than in P3D, and I think it will be that way for quite some time.

24 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Numbers of so called uses are one thing but the important thing would be how many of those MS2020 users will spend money on high quality scenery and airplanes to fly. I think that the percentage will be much much lower than Prepar3d users. Many of those big numbers for FS 2020 are made up of folks that are just trying things out for a couple of bucks on steam and they will most likely revert back to P3D or X-pain because at least at this point, the MS product is not much more than a fancy Bing Map viewer. The other group of little johnnies will soon tire of crashing planes into buildings and go away. Each Dev has to decide for themselves but having seen MS crash and burn with the Flight mess and the fact that MS can just pull the plug like with FSX would give me pause if I were in their shoes. 

I know some people here hate when we quote entire posts but this one is fairly loaded so -

Your first sentence- I don’t think there are, if any, high fidelity aircraft to make that judgment. Umberto, a few posts back already indicated that his sales figures are strong for MSFS. Unless you have a crystal ball, I cannot begin to think how you are able to determine this.

Your second sentence- How do you determine this? I am not going to stoke the licensing fire, but one product is strictly licensed for training and learning and the other for entertainment. Also, if one were to purchase professional version @ $199 vs. premium deluxe @ $119.99, which would the average/casual user or novice buy. One is sold pretty much vanilla requiring a significant investment in add ons to create a reasonable facsimile of the world or one that has eye candy, somewhat decent weather and some pretty good hand-crafted airports. I believe that MSFS would fit the bill for the demographic that I cited as an example.

Your third sentence- MS posted some time ago, the numbers after the first couple of weeks or something like that of the number of “users”. These numbers were fairly impressive considering that flight simulator is believed to be a niche market. I think that MSFS probably appeals to the new generation of simmers because of the eye candy. The casual simmer is not necessarily interested in aircraft procedure or checklists, they probably prefer to use their imaginations and explore their world. You may be correct that the more serious simmers will remain with their aim of choice because they are more into the details of flying. But I wouldn’t put the numbers as high as you may think. MSFS is more accessible to the casual user than Prepar3d is. Total cost of ownership and licensing would be the key considerations. The Bing Maps come stock with MSFS.

Your fourth sentence- You’re probably right on that point.

Your last sentence- MS aren’t the first company to do that and they won’t be the last. A prime example would Flightradar24, I purchased their app when it first was offered along with several of the in-app purchases. That app no longer works and I am forced to endure irrelevant ads or pay for a subscription. As mentioned too many times already, the developers go where the cash flows.

In general, as much as the community wants change, when it rears its head, people resist and make any and every comment they can to justify their sim of choice. I have no vested interests in what sim you use or anyone else. Hey, I still use FS9, it does what I want to do and I don’t have to spend thousands to get a high end machine that will most likely become an expensive doorstop in 7 years. 
 

Umberto is the man with the data. If he and other developers see that the market shifts to another platform, that’s where I would expect them to focus their work. It happened with FS9 a few years ago, then the cessation of development for 32 bit platforms. There are still a number of FS9, FSX and P3D 3.x users. Development has stopped, but the spirit of these sims are alive. I don’t know if this is the first nail in the P3D coffin or not, but as was mentioned many times, we are not LM’s target market. Take it as you will.

1 hour ago, Boeingnut said:

Not quite politically correct, but the point is taken

LOL! I don't know of any complete sentence that could be written in any language today that would pass the test of being politically correct. 

On 9/20/2020 at 10:22 AM, virtuali said:

 

So, the lower price reflect the fact the scenery is less featured. If we released *that* version for P3D, at a lower price, we would have been shamed for becoming like insert the new of your favorite low-cost airport developer here

 

I personally don't think you should worry about prices in P3D vs. MSFS.  They are different animals and everyone knows P3D is a niche product catering to a limited audience.  If the MSFS customer base is 100x or 1000x bigger and a $15 or $20 addon airport sells 10x what you sold in P3D then should should price it accordingly.  

14 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

LOL! I don't know of any complete sentence that could be written in any language today that would pass the test of being politically correct. 

The day I worry about being politically correct is the day that I run naked down my local high street singing Yankee Doodle Dandy.