4 minutes ago, wthomas33065 said:

I 1000% agree.  But you're not going to get one, plain and simple.  When people stop buying a product due to the lack of a manual, then that might change, until then, you're just barking at the moon.  Just stating a fact.

LOL  I'm not disagreeing with you, but then even when a manual IS produced people don't read it and you get the same issues  and comments even when the answer is in the manual.  I mean look at some of the threads here..  people see a forum title and post that they also have a problem when the post above theirs is a solution...  

We are now demanding such instant gratification that producing a manual is, quite frankly, a complete waste of time and paper 🙂

How many people here who drive can honestly say they sat down and read their cars manual BEFORE they got in the car and drove it for the first time, and even moreso..  look in the manual if there is a problem, or just pull out a phone and google it?

Graham

Might be worth it....

Might not!

https://store.flightsim.com/product/sofly-a-guide-to-flight-simulator-msfs-2020/

 

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by HiFlyer

1 hour ago, DavidP said:

Why are people so sensitive and aggressive to anything remotely critical of MSFS? 

That type of response isn't called for.

Thank You.

This forum is filled with MS/Asobo defenders and crusaders if you point out the current state of the game. Fortunately my response is pretty accurate.

People here are incinuateing I posted a personal attach on the OP. Hardly the case!

 

10 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

Thank You.

This forum is filled with MS/Asobo defenders and crusaders if you point out the current state of the game. Fortunately my response is pretty accurate.

People here are incinuateing I posted a personal attach on the OP. Hardly the case!

 

Time to take a chill pill 🙂

What about giving Microsoft and Asobo a chance to fix this, rather than beating up on them all the time..

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by Bert Pieke

3 hours ago, andy a said:

Yes we have a new sim "like nothing we ever had". Well I would rather be able to fly the aircraft. I have watched tutorials on you tube, and still have problems flying the aircraft the way the authors do. 12 months from now is quite a time to wait after paying £110.

The sim will undoubtedly be the best ever...at some point, but there are several things I'm not happy with. The lack of a manual for a start. I don't know why MS cant make a PDF available to download

Hmm, I don't know how I keep completing flight after flight......I must be channeling Chuck Yeager.

 

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by Ricardo41

16 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

People here are incinuateing I posted a personal attach on the OP. Hardly the case!

No, but your criticism of the employees of Microsoft and Asobo appear to be unfair and a bit mean spirited.  And as another pointed out, you do seem more than content to rain on people's parade when they post a positive review of the product.

Look, we get it, you're not happy with the product and have little confidence that it will get better.  You are entitled to that opinion, and you have expressed it, time and time again.  I'm just trying to figure out what you are trying to accomplish, as NONE of us here have the ability to address your concerns.  So again, what are you trying to accomplish?  Fair enough question I think.

You don't need to buy a printed manual, pdf, or whatever, all that info is available here on youtube and on the official msfs forum for free. 

It took me about an hour to figure out the interface, and a couple of flights to get comfortable. 

And I'm not a particularly smart guy. 

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by Ricardo41

28 minutes ago, Moria15 said:

LOL  I'm not disagreeing with you, but then even when a manual IS produced people don't read it and you get the same issues 

And let's not forget, the massive manual that came with MS FS 2, covered exactly 4 scenery areas, and 2 planes.  

I'm sure if Microsoft wanted to limit us to the plane selection and flying instruction that came with those 80's products, we could see a good amount of documentation.  But can you imagine the documentation for 20 aircraft?  And how many different GPS and FMC systems are rendered?  

Yes, a basic key command guide, flight tutorial, and some basics on GPS navigation would go a long way.  But as I mentioned, until companies see lack of documentation as having a negative impact on sales, they are going to stick to using social media and forums as the collective brain trust.

48 minutes ago, Bert Pieke said:

Time to take a chill pill 🙂

What about giving Microsoft and Asobo a chance to fix this, rather than beating up on them all the time..

There are two side to the state of this game. I'm not praising nor defending anyone.

It is simply way to early in the release post Alpha to draw much conclusion from using the product.

I have the game and not disappointed by it, but it still needs very much work.

The hype train was out of control on Avsim long before release. I think I mentioned that months back.

The developers as I see it have only pushed the Flight Sim Genre forward in one direction at present. It's all about the scenery. It might be a good way for them to show off Bing Maps as I don't know many people using it for real world purposes.

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by tpete61

3 hours ago, tpete61 said:

...We are 6 weeks in which is 1-1/2 months. They have broken more then they have fixed.

How do you come up with that?  I count 109 items in the last patch alone, as listed below. Being more than fair, let's omit the numerous corrections in the first patch. What is your list of 110+ things that got broken since release?

1. Optimized cockpit screen display when screens are not displayed on screen.

2. New option available to control cockpit screen update frequency.

3. Tweaked CPU thread priorities to reduce interruption of frame critical threads.

4. Optimized loading system to reduce overall loading times.

5. Optimized heavy airport scenes impact on CPU.

6. Reduced the amount of GPU overdraw to improve GPU performance.

7. Memory optimizations to reduce software memory footprint and improve performance on memory limited computers.

8. Overall performance optimizations.

9. Incoming ATC Azure speech has now three different voices.

10. ATC voice gender is now based on the avatar of the pilot/copilot.

11. Fix for the incorrect voice pack being used if the game is not localized in English and if the Windows Offline Text-to-Speech option is used.

12. Filters and sorting have been improved in the marketplace.

13. Manual cache layout has been improved and the download estimated time should now be correct.

14. Improved support for gamepad navigation in many menus.

15. Case sensitive search is now working properly in control screen.

16. Search by axis in control screen has been fixed.

17. Active pause button has been added in the toolbar.

18. Pause button has been fixed in the Content manager.

19. Improved wind turbulence simulation to reduce horizontal turbulences.

20. Added simulation of low rpm piston engine vibrations on cockpit.

21. Added simulation of water particles (rain/clouds) density in aerodynamics => generates vibrations flying through clouds or rain.

22. Fixed wet surface friction and braking distances.

23. Fixed live weather wind offset in higher latitude areas (America, Asia…) that was causing the 3kts Wind bug.

24. Cessna 208 B Grand Caravan EX: AP buttons animations have been fixed.

25. Cessna 208 B Grand Caravan EX, Beechcraft Bonanza G36, ICON A5: placards have been updated.

26. Cessna 172 Skyhawk : compass texture have been improved.

27. Zlin Savage Cub : tail wheel blur effect is now correctly triggered.

28. Zlin Shock Ultra : arcs on airspeed indicator is correctly set.

29. Zlin Shock Ultra : turbo mode has been removed from dashboard.

30. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : MCP buttons visual improvements.

31. Cessna 208 B Grand Caravan EX : propeller sound has been improved when RPM is changing.

32. Cessna Longitude : AP altitude and speed management improvements.

33. Cessna Longitude : auto throttle is now inhibited during take off and until 400 feet AGL.

34. Daher TBM 930 : yaw damper is now automatically turned on when the AP is enabled.

35. Beechcraft King Air 350i : windshield deicing is now working.

36. ICON A5 : « incorrect heading indicator » notification is now correctly triggered.

37. Zlin Shock Ultra : flaps now operate mechanically instead of electrically.

38. Zlin Shock Ultra : trim management improvements.

39. Cessna Citation CJ4 : reverse thrust has been removed.

40. Cub Crafter X Cub : IAS AP mode is now working properly.

41. Daher TBM 930 and Cessna 208 B Grand Caravan EX : PT6 engines shutdown duration has been increased.

42. Cessna Longitude : several knobs of the G5000 are now working.

43. Beachcraft Baron G58, Beechcraft Bonanza G36, Cessna 172 Skyhawk G1000, Diamond DA40 NG : fixed missing ALT knob.

44. Beechcraft King Air 350i : « menu » key is now working properly.

45. Cessna 152 and 152 Aerobat : avionics state have been fixed using Honeycomb device battery switch.

46. GNS 530 : flight plan display alignment has been fixed on the Garmin GNS 530.

47. G1000 : automatically switches from NAV to LOC when needed.

48. G1000 : ETE and ETA fixed wrong values.

49. G1000/3000/3x : AP setup is no longer reset when enabling AP.

50. G1000/3000/3x : fixed missing flight plan when the selected departure is coordinates on the world map.

51. G3x : text size in « approach box » has been increased.

52. G3x : approaches can now be selected and loaded.

53. G3x : fixed bad information in nearest VOR page when unknown VOR is selected.

54. General : AP behavior improvements.

55. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : rear wheels steering has been fixed.

56. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : pressing the battery button now always display the ON part.

57. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : improved flaps deployment and retraction sequences.

58. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : fixed auto-throttle not giving back control to the pilot when disabled.

59. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : center tanks drain first when decreasing fuel quantity via fuel and payload menu.

60. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : auto-throttle is now automatically disengaged when landing.

61. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : auto-throttle now engages correctly during take off roll when conditions are met.

62. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : alt intervention no longer needs to be pressed again when not needed.

63. Airbus A320neo : automatic speed management improvements.

64. Airbus A320neo : alpha floor condition is now correctly triggered.

65. General : weight is better taken into account for V speed calculations.

66. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : FMC now allows to activate approach without going to route page.

67. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : approach VREF speeds are fixed.

68. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : empty rectangles no longer displayed on the FMA.

69. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : runways are now displayed in correct order in the FMC.

70. Boeing 747-8 Intercontinental : cruise altitude no longer automatically filled in the FMC.

71. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : LNAV and VNAV correctly displayed as armed in FMA when conditions are met.

72. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : altitude target on MCP can no longer be set to negative values.

73. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : auto-throttle mode no longer displayed on FMA when auto-throttle is disabled.

74. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : fixed wrong flaps value displayed in the FMC take off page.

75. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : target heading line on ND is no longer reset while in heading mode.

76. Boeing 787-10 Dreamliner : direct-to flight plans can now be entered in the FMC.

77. Airbus A320neo : target altitude can now be changed when AP is disabled.

78. Airbus A320neo : armed modes no longer appear in boxes on the FMA.

79. Airbus A320neo : flaps « FULL » indication instead of « F » on ECAM.

80. Airbus A320neo : FMGS message « INVALID ENTRY » replaced by « NOT ALLOWED ».

81. Airbus A320neo : FMGS now only displays arrival procedures corresponding to the selected runway.

82. Airbus A320neo : FMGS now correctly displays ETA for approach points.

83. Airbus A320neo : removed remaining waypoints on ND after selecting different approach procedures.

84. Airbus A320neo : fixed heading bug alignment offset issue.

85. Airbus A320neo : fixed missing runway in the perf page of FMGS when a departure runway is already selected.

86. Airbus A320neo : fixed constraints flickering on ND.

87. Airbus A320neo : FMGS block fuel indication now correctly initialized.

88. Fixed freezes caused by glass cockpits.

89. Travel to feature no longer disengages autopilot when used.

90. Fixed 225°/3kt issue with inconsistent wind in game.

91. Fixed issue with weather persistency on flight restart.

92. Upgraded multiplayer servers.

93. Rating display on bundles has been improved.

94. Performance drop after downloading an item in marketplace has been removed.

95. An addon purchased outside of the marketplace no longer has an impact on the “Installed” filter in the marketplace as it is considered as a “community” content.

96. Addon purchased outside of the marketplace now also visible in the Content manager when online, and offline if downloaded in the community folder.

97. 3rd Party content thumbnail display improved.

98. Pause download during installation is fixed.

99. Various typo fixes in multiple languages.

100. Subtitles are now enabled by default.

101. Subtitle option has been moved from Sound menu to Accessibility so users can set it during initial install.

102. Remove rotation clamp on “Instrument cameras”.

103. Pilot camera position can now be saved or reset.

104. Fix leg completion trigger.

105. Completionist achievement should now unlock when all activities have been completed.

106. Detected buildings that intersect roads are now excluded.

107. Longer bridges are less prone to having a gap.

108. UK city houses models should no longer appear in US suburbs.

109. “In The Wild” Achievement can now be unlocked

20 minutes ago, tpete61 said:

I have and not disappointed by it, but it still needs very much work.

That I can agree with... 🙂

All I can suggest, is first of all, remember that this IS an Entertainment title.. if you want a hard core sim, P3D and XPlane are still there for you to enjoy.  Not everyone seems to be willing to accept this..

Secondly, there is much to enjoy here, even in its early days.. Some of the airplanes are pretty good, and much of the scenery is indeed spectacular.  So, is this then (just) a scenery simulator, as some suggest?  No, IMHO.. Even in its present state, it offers a real opportunity to experience the "Joy of Flight" and there are truly magic moments (and some scary ones) to be experienced.

Just start up the C172 at Redding, CA, and fly west to the coast, stopping at small airports en route.  That is what flying is all about!

If you want to try this.. load up the attached flight plan and climb to 5000 feet.

 

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by Bert Pieke

Pln flightplan attached.

Rename to KRDD-KRDD.pln

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<SimBase.Document Type="AceXML" version="1,0">
    <Descr>AceXML Document</Descr>
    <!-- LNMDATA
         _lnm=Created by Little Navmap Version 2.4.4 (revision b96521a) on 2020 05 09T00:00:26|
         aircraftperffile=|
         aircraftperfname=|
         aircraftperftype=|
         cycle=1801|
         navdata=NAVIGRAPH|
         simdata=NAVIGRAPH
-->
    <FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
        <Title>KRDD to KRDD</Title>
        <FPType>VFR</FPType>
        <CruisingAlt>6500</CruisingAlt>
        <DepartureID>KRDD</DepartureID>
        <DepartureLLA>N40° 31' 13.21",W122° 17' 41.47",+000502.00</DepartureLLA>
        <DestinationID>KRDD</DestinationID>
        <DestinationLLA>N40° 30' 32.30",W122° 17' 36.20",+000502.00</DestinationLLA>
        <Descr>KRDD, KRDD</Descr>
        <DeparturePosition></DeparturePosition>
        <DepartureName>Redding Muni</DepartureName>
        <DestinationName>Redding Muni</DestinationName>
        <AppVersion>
            <AppVersionMajor>10</AppVersionMajor>
            <AppVersionBuild>61472</AppVersionBuild>
        </AppVersion>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KRDD">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 30' 32.30",W122° 17' 36.20",+000505.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>KRDD</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="4049N12246">
            <ATCWaypointType>User</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 49' 0.00",W122° 46' 0.01",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="O86">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 58' 57.90",W122° 41' 37.41",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>O86</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="O54">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 44' 50.10",W122° 55' 20.40",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>O54</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="F62">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 32' 49.20",W123° 10' 46.71",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>F62</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="4030N12318">
            <ATCWaypointType>User</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 30' 0.00",W123° 18' 0.01",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="4029N12324">
            <ATCWaypointType>User</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 29' 0.00",W123° 24' 0.01",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="4028N12332">
            <ATCWaypointType>User</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 28' 0.00",W123° 32' 0.00",+000000.00</WorldPosition>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="D63">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 29' 35.53",W123° 35' 59.14",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>D63</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="O33">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 46' 51.32",W124° 12' 38.11",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>O33</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KFOT">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 33' 14.20",W124° 7' 57.60",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>KFOT</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="0Q5">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 1' 41.40",W124° 4' 27.49",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>0Q5</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="T42">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 12' 41.30",W123° 17' 51.69",+006500.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>T42</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
        <ATCWaypoint id="KRDD">
            <ATCWaypointType>Airport</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N40° 30' 32.30",W122° 17' 36.20",+000505.00</WorldPosition>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAOIdent>KRDD</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>
    </FlightPlan.FlightPlan>
</SimBase.Document>

 

 

Edited September 25, 20205 yr by Bert Pieke

2 hours ago, DavidP said:

Why are people so sensitive and aggressive to anything remotely critical of MSFS? 

That type of response isn't called for.

Probably because it's a typical pattern wherein someone makes a wildly exaggerated negative remark, and then when called on it, they try to re-cast it as an innocent and "only remotely critical" comment.   And that tactic just generally tends to put people off since it has the appearance of needless and spineless passive-aggressivism. 

4 hours ago, tpete61 said:

Great to see your optimism for the next 12 months.

12 months from now it may very well be on the same level. If perfection comes from imperfection I sure don't see it with this development team. 1 step forward 2 steps backwards is hardly improving anything.

We are 6 weeks in which is 1-1/2 months. They have broken more then they have fixed.

 

Glass half empty.

11 minutes ago, Stoopy said:

How do you come up with that?  I count 109 items in the last patch alone, as listed below. Being more than fair, let's omit the numerous corrections in the first patch. What is your list of 110+ things that got broken since release?

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