18 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

New code, new flight dynamics, and a new flight sim means it's going to be a disaster at launch. Anyone who's been in this hobby for a while should know this, especially at AVSIM "Reviewer".

Perhaps a little pessimistic. I'd be inclined to say that these things mean it 'could potentially be problematic' at launch, rather than that it will definitely be a disaster.

I'm pretty sure Aerosoft will be well mindful of the flak they copped when their first stab at the CRJ came out and wish to avoid a second helping of that, plus this is theirs and the first major airliner release for MSFS, and they are one of the developers working on the SDK too, so there's a lot riding on this one reputation-wise.

It'd be very foolish not to beta-test it fairly robustly before throwing it out there, probably more so than any other airliner release in recent years for any sim, and I bet you MS and Asobo are saying that too. Not least because they'll be aware of the very large hat Sony just had to eat in pulling their much-vaunted Cyberpunk 2077 game owing to poor performance on older consoles and a few other issues.

Nobody wants a poor reputation stuff-up like and the publicity it wears around its neck like an albatross on the week where literally millions of pounds is spent on software for presents worldwide and probably even more than that is gifted to people in money for them to buy their own present in the subsequent weeks.

Edited December 19, 20205 yr by Chock

24 minutes ago, Chock said:

Perhaps a little pessimistic. I'd be inclined to say that these things mean it 'could potentially be problematic' at launch, rather than that it will definitely be a disaster.

I'm pretty sure Aerosoft will be well mindful of the flak they copped when their first stab at the CRJ came out and wish to avoid a second helping of that, plus this is theirs and the first major airliner release for MSFS, and they are one of the developers working on the SDK too, so there's a lot riding on this one reputation-wise.It'd be very foolish not to beta-test it fairly robustly before throwing it out there, probably more so than any other airliner release in recent years for any sim, and I bet you MS and Asobo are saying that too.

// shortened

Well stated, Chock.  For those reasons alone, we probably won’t see a Christmas delivery of the AS CRJ this year. I, for one, really don’t mind a timely hotfix or two for a first time airliner in a new still being developed flight sim.

Regards,

Ray

1 hour ago, JasonPC said:

I think he means until it's out and reviewed we don't know WHAT to expect.

But there were two prior major releases (obviously on old/different code) that both had unresolved issues despite numerous updates and promises.

So maybe those two other releases are setting the tone for his expectations?

Let’s hope the DA/Aerosoft team kept good notes and had a “note to self “ not to repeat those issues with this MFS CRJ. 😳

Regards,,

Ray

43 minutes ago, Chock said:

 

It'd be very foolish not to beta-test it fairly robustly before throwing it out there, probably more so than any other airliner release in recent years for any sim, and I bet you MS and Asobo are saying that too. 

I agree with you whole heartedly Chock.  Having been a beta tester for a few releases, I have seen first hand how an aircraft is tested and tested by numerous folks and everything passes with flying colors.  As soon as the aircraft is released, BAM >>> compatability  issues with all kinds of other add ons no one had seen during testing. Then people start screaming "Didn't they even test this thing ??? "

On 12/17/2020 at 10:00 PM, Scottoest said:

Interesting that PMDG were actually planning to send basically half their dev team to France to work directly with Asobo, before COVID ruined everything.

Huh? Sounds....weird. 

Was PMDG planning to move into the vacant building next to the Asobo headquarters? Tell its developers, he, guys, off to France you go?

I mean, it's software, can't you use various online tools, Zoom, etc....?

3 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Huh? Sounds....weird. 

Was PMDG planning to move into the vacant building next to the Asobo headquarters? Tell its developers, he, guys, off to France you go?

I mean, it's software, can't you use various online tools, Zoom, etc....?

I would assume, if that's true, they meant some of the guys who do stuff for them who were already in Europe, and most likely France. As I understand it, they use a lot of 'per project' people from around the world.

Or if not, then maybe something similar of that nature, because it seems a bit problematic to A) have some of your key staff disappearing off on a rather expensive junket including setting up a business premises and B) hoping that Hank from I.T. can get by asking technical programming questions and such with an entire vocabulary which comprises: 'deux bieres s'il vous plait' and 'voulez-vous coucher avec moi, ce sois?'. 🤣

No offence to people from the land of the free, but in my experience, it's not the most cosmopolitan of places when it comes to multi-lingual détente; there's a big difference between 'holiday French' and the kind of fluency required to discuss technical programming issues.

10 hours ago, Chock said:

Perhaps a little pessimistic. I'd be inclined to say that these things mean it 'could potentially be problematic' at launch, rather than that it will definitely be a disaster.

I'm pretty sure Aerosoft will be well mindful of the flak they copped when their first stab at the CRJ came out and wish to avoid a second helping of that, plus this is theirs and the first major airliner release for MSFS, and they are one of the developers working on the SDK too, so there's a lot riding on this one reputation-wise.

It'd be very foolish not to beta-test it fairly robustly before throwing it out there, probably more so than any other airliner release in recent years for any sim, and I bet you MS and Asobo are saying that too. Not least because they'll be aware of the very large hat Sony just had to eat in pulling their much-vaunted Cyberpunk 2077 game owing to poor performance on older consoles and a few other issues.

 

It is pretty hard to 'robustly beta test' this as there are many things within the core sim code that don't work 100% right yet.  AP functions work--not always, you can't save flights, just to name a few.  There are alot of things Aerosoft can't overcome on this first release as there are many issues with flight simulator at this stage.  Things will evolve overtime as the core sim evolves after every update and I am sure the CRJ will as well.  Flight Simulator is not at the level of a perfect 'study-level' sim yet and people know this as it is new product with GA and airliner capability.   It has many great features, but will require patience to get things working 100%.  Customers will be patient with Aerosoft, as they have been with Flight Simulator since release.  There are alot of people flying out there now. 

On 12/17/2020 at 8:06 PM, marsman2020 said:

Aerosoft has said that there is very little in common between the MSFS version and the past versions. 

Yes, that is true in some aspects, but coding systems logic etc has been done and tested and that requires a lot of work and time.

16 minutes ago, simon747 said:

It is pretty hard to 'robustly beta test'

This is true of course. I doubt there are two people on Avsim who have identical computers, much less in the wider world of flight sim add-on buyers, so inevitably when anything gets released, there are going to be unforeseen circumstances on some computers. They can only do what they can do after all.

I know from having created software in the past that one of the smartest things for me to do, was to wander to the front of the office and get the secretary or receptionist to try the thing on their modest PC instead of simply assuming that it was problem-free because it ran okay on the fairly decent computer I was creating it on. You'd quite often find that your super-duper masterpiece would stumble at the first hurdle and wouldn't even crank up without some additional application or patch that lesser computer didn't have; something which it is easy to forget on occasion.

That one apparently didn't occur to Sony's developer for Cyberpunk 2077 it would seem. Nevertheless, in spite of criticisms to the contrary, we know that Aerosoft is nothing if not pragmatic, so I'm sure they'll be on this one in at least as much as they can be.

25 minutes ago, Chock said:

 we know that Aerosoft is nothing if not pragmatic, so I'm sure they'll be on this one in at least as much as they can be.

Yes, and with the core MS Flight Simulator code still actively being modified, developed,  and changed at minimum once a month we can expect Aerosoft to have updates as well to work with this new structure from MS to improve the simulator and add-ons as things are not 100% yet.

7 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Huh? Sounds....weird. 

Was PMDG planning to move into the vacant building next to the Asobo headquarters? Tell its developers, he, guys, off to France you go?

I mean, it's software, can't you use various online tools, Zoom, etc....?

I'm sure they have good reasons to want to move half their staff to France (for two months only btw). Not sure why that's weird. I think it's safe to say that this is on a higher level than the usual Zoom meeting.

3 hours ago, Chock said:

No offence to people from the land of the free, but in my experience, it's not the most cosmopolitan of places when it comes to multi-lingual détente; there's a big difference between 'holiday French' and the kind of fluency required to discuss technical programming issues.

PMDG have members from all around the world who speak several different languages due to where they're from and they recently had posted job offerings for more developers. I'd think they're used to working around occasional language barriers. Many of the Asobo developers also seemed to speak English quite well despite the obvious accent.

Edited December 19, 20205 yr by threegreen

15 hours ago, JasonPC said:

I think he means until it's out and reviewed we don't know WHAT to expect.

 

So maybe those two other releases are setting the tone for his expectations?

No I`m not a beta tester, to be honest, I have never owned an Aerosoft product (nor a PMDG). The plane IS showing interesting technical details, like brake pressure, fuel flow and other screens on its secondary PFD (page 1), but nobody knows if they are also technically working right (also based on other [good] posts made by others in here from older products).

 

Developers should stop following the path of MSFS, their systems and plane must work 100% right at the beginning. Altough it`s easy to get tempted by good looking pictures, I just wanted to express my opinion for others. I had no intent that my old post gets interpreted as secret information from a beta tester, but rather just as a plain and simple statement.

 

 

Edited December 19, 20205 yr by BigDee

51 minutes ago, BigDee said:

Developers should stop following the path of MSFS, their systems and plane must work 100% right at the beginning.

 

 

I am willing to make adjustments in my flight habits in MS Flight Simulator as the experience of visual flight immersion is so much better than the previous sims, that I will be patient.   If it ain't perfect in a certain system or procedure, there will be eventual improvements that will help.  Some of these 'improvements or updates'  have been annoying, ie A320 AP issues on the last update.  I am working around that and hoping the 22/12 update will have that fixed again.   Aerosoft/DA are catering to a level lower system-wise than PMDG and it is a cheaper cost.  For my hobby, I will be patient, but will fully support any add-on aircraft even in early days as we are getting tons of scenery (airports) with less aircraft.  

Edited December 19, 20205 yr by simon747

5 hours ago, Chock said:

That one apparently didn't occur to Sony's developer for Cyberpunk 2077

Sony doesn’t own the developer, CD Project Red, and PlayStation isn’t the only platform having issues with the game. I have around 15 hours in the game right now on PC, it’s very fun despite the bugs, but I’ve stopped playing for now until more of the issues can be fixed.

Edited December 19, 20205 yr by Tuskin38

Just now, Tuskin38 said:

Sony doesn’t own CD Project Red. And PlayStation isn’t the only platform having issues.

Did I suggest either of these things?