18 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

Keep dismissing everyone who bought the original CRJ from Aerosoft and got shafted (Aeroshaft?). 

I had no issues with the CRJ's first release that made me not enjoy it.  Just saying that FS 2020 has bugs and still does and people still use it, so you have to be a little flexible.  I can't even save a flight in Flight Simulator and that is a basic, basic function.  I enjoy the sim, so I work around it as the software is growing and I will have the same attitude of add-on planes and will gladly buy them as I faith in the developers and we need aircraft that will evolve with the simulator.  

Edited December 21, 20205 yr by simon747

On 12/15/2020 at 9:33 PM, raymar said:

We should feel comfort knowing you know so much more about the CRJ than DA and Aerosoft.

You know he’s a rw CRJ pilot, right? And Aerosoft’s CRJ, which I own on other platforms fwiw, has never been regarded as a particularly good addon by the broader sim community.

Aerosoft is marketing themselves well around these parts of late, but they’re hardly the gold standard of 3rd party airliner devlopment.

On 12/19/2020 at 7:18 PM, simon747 said:

There are alot of people flying out there now. 

There are a modest and steadily decreasing number of people flying out there (around 4000 simultaneous on Steam this month).

The declining userbase may turn around if the right features are added, but at this point it shows no signs of doing so, based on the very good stats that Valve provides us with.

On 12/20/2020 at 7:20 AM, Chock said:

When it is on a Sony platform, it is their game, and it's their format's version which has been pulled, which is what I was talking about. Jeez, it's not hard to follow, and anyway, who gives a flying eff who made it, it's hardly the point of the discussion.

Hi Chock, your description of the cyberpunk thing is actually very different from how it went down. Sony abruptly pulled the plug on CDPR because it wasn’t their game, and they were annoyed that CDPR had thrown them under the bus with regards to refunds etc.

You could make the “their game” with a bit more accuracy if you’d used Microsoft as an example.

Off topic, of course, but it was a comment that stood out to me as well as I’ve been following the Cyberpunk debacle with great interest! 🙂

Just now, OzWhitey said:

Hi Chock, your description of the cyberpunk thing is actually very different from how it went down. Sony abruptly pulled the plug on CDPR because it wasn’t their game, and they were annoyed that CDPR had thrown them under the bus with regards to refunds etc.

You could make the “their game” with a bit more accuracy if you’d used Microsoft as an example.

Off topic, of course, but it was a comment that stood out to me as well as I’ve been following the Cyberpunk debacle with great interest! 🙂

Yeah, that's true, but to be honest it was intended to be a quick comment rather than a detailed synopsis of the entire situation. I still think it is hilariously ironic that a game where you are interfacing with computer technology, should be one where the interface with computer technology proved to be problematic.

4 hours ago, raymar said:

Yep, unfortunately, there is a fairly large number of so-called flight simmers that enjoy Aerosoft Bashing and are delighted to have something like this CRJ to vent their frustrations. I for one, am looking forward to the imminent release in the next few days (or whenever it is ready).

This bunch of self-centered, know it alls, that probably couldn't fly a kite on a windy day are just one of those necessary evils that we have to put up with in the public forums.

Regards,

Ray

Gee, someone is not happy today!

A large number of simmers have been underwhelmed for a fair few years now by Aerosoft’s efforts at developing tubeliners.

I find their current anti-P3D attitude to be disconcerting as well - they are very quick to name drop their supposedly close relationship with Asobo, and declare the p3d platform to be dead. They don’t seem to realize that the reason their P3D sales are poor is that 1. their products are mediocre and overpriced 2. Many simmers now actively boycott them due to their attitude.

Would i personally buy he crj? Maybe. I have for fsx and p3d, but it’s the sort of plane that sits in my hangar as there’s almost always a hiher-quality aircraft available to fly. For MSFS, as the default airliners are poor it may end up being the best option until the more reliable developers actually get their product to market.

Sorry if I and others are “necessary evils” to you (!), but I think everyone here should absolutely be sharing their honest personal opinions.

2 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

Gee, someone is not happy today!

A large number of simmers have been underwhelmed for a fair few years now by Aerosoft’s efforts at developing tubeliners.

I find their current anti-P3D attitude to be disconcerting as well - they are very quick to name drop their supposedly close relationship with Asobo, and declare the p3d platform to be dead. They don’t seem to realize that the reason their P3D sales are poor is that 1. their products are mediocre and overpriced 2. Many simmers now actively boycott them due to their attitude.

Would i personally buy he crj? Maybe. I have for fsx and p3d, but it’s the sort of plane that sits in my hangar as there’s almost always a hiher-quality aircraft available to fly. For MSFS, as the default airliners are poor it may end up being the best option until the more reliable developers actually get their product to market.

Sorry if I and others are “necessary evils” to you (!), but I think everyone here should absolutely be sharing their honest personal opinions.

Thanks for your post, Oz. I welcome posts from folks that share their honest personal opinions and it is quite easy to realize there is a camp of unhappy folks with their poison arrows pointed directly at Aerosoft.  I have no problem whatsoever with that. 

It is those that are trying to promote "it is a disaster" before the CRJ for MFS is even completed.  That seems a bit of a stretch of rational thought and I tend to disagree.  Not that I am not allowed to change my mind if in fact the MFS edition of the CRJ turns out to a lemon and the DA/Aerosoft CRJ support team does not make a concerted effort to correct the wrongs in a timely manner.  I guess we shall see.

Regards,

Ray

2 hours ago, Chapstick said:

Keep dismissing everyone who bought the original CRJ from Aerosoft and got shafted (Aeroshaft?). Don't say we didn't warn you after you buy it on day one and actually use it and see where Aerosoft cut corners to meet their release date.

I'm always surprised that people purchase stuff day one without seeing any reviews, and then are upset its not working properly.  Kinda like this sim day one.  The state of the sims was shown weeks ahead.  Any way, i'll let others fall on the knife and i'll watch the first reviews.  I will likely still purchase if there aren't bugs that make it unusable...because i'm sure there will be bugs.  And i'm not a RL CRJ pilot so a few inaccuracies wouldn't bother me too much, because I likely wouldn't notice lol

7 hours ago, OzWhitey said:

And Aerosoft’s CRJ, which I own on other platforms fwiw, has never been regarded as a particularly good addon by the broader sim community.

Aerosoft is marketing themselves well around these parts of late, but they’re hardly the gold standard of 3rd party airliner devlopment.

...and why do people expect THIS release to be any different?

1 hour ago, Ricardo41 said:

...and why do people expect THIS release to be any different?

Considering the core code of flight simulator is still buggy, people will be patient. I have been flying around in basic default planes with broken autopilots for quite a bit now, anything a little better would make me happy.  If some function or system does not work 100% now, but will bet better with updates I am ok with that.

I am not hard-core systems simmer, if people are after level of detail on systems for airliners you P3D is still available.  Otherwise, in the new sim patience is required.

Edited December 22, 20205 yr by simon747

Just reading the pages of posts on the Aerosoft forum for the CRJ model. Still hard to say when the release will be, near or far from now. This is the post by Robert Randazzo (replying to Mathijs Kok) from the Aerosoft forum that @threegreen had mentioned in this thread for those interested.

People seem to think all FS add-on developers are in strong competition and do not help each other. But that is far from the truth. Before Corona we used to meet at events, drink beer, now it is all digital and a lot less fun. But If I ask Robert at PMDG, or Oleksiy at Majestic, or Richard at Navigraph, or Fernando at Carenado, or or you name it, something I simply know they will reply and help. Just as they can count on us to do the same. As long as the people behind a company are respectable, don't steal from other companies, do not use spyware in installers, etc...  and are willing to buy other people a beer, they can count on the support from others.

 

I will add my support to Mathijs sentiment here.  One of the things we constantly try to snuff out is this popular meme that developers are all in competition with one another like newspaper barkers on a street corner.  We aren't. 

 

The entire market exists because there are so many developers, and so many shared development relationships in the community.  The ecosystem as a whole needs a broad range of products and services in order to attract enough users so that it becomes self sustaining.  If things get out of balance and they are dominated by a single developer, then creativity and innovation suffer and soon after community enthusiasm. 

 

Behind the scenes developers talk and share information nearly constantly.  We help one another with complex problems, we work to resolve difficult problems and we share strategies with other developers who get stuck, or we seek ideas from other developers when we are stuck.

 

Mathijs and I might go for months without talking, but then we might exchange a few dozen email in a week as we bounce an idea, or a problem back and forth.  What I think many users don't understand is that I know Mathijs.  He is my friend.  I look forward to making trips to Europe so that I can see him and spend time.  We talk about highly nuanced topics such as how to convince Asobo of the importance of specific functions and then we talk about vacations and travel and the ups-and-downs of politics, cars, airplanes, fish, home improvement projects, dogs and spouses.

 

This is true with many many other developers with whom we share relationships, both at Aerosoft and at other develment houses.  To us they become the sorts of friends you greet with a warm embrace, not just a handshake or a waive.  The relationships mean something- and to be honest they make the work more worthwhile.  We crisscross countries and continents to spend time together socially and one of my favorite days in this career to date was touring Aerosoft's team through the DC-3 after enjoying a holiday lunch of grilled chicken and sausage with them at their office.  (We managed to take a few of them flying- but we accidentally took on too much fuel and were heavily weight limited that day... I wish we'd had time to stick around for another day or so, but the schedule was tight... Still it was fun to take Simone with us since it was her birthday- and no amount of convincing would get Winfried on the airplane. 🙂  )

 

PMDG's journey through MSFS development has been hand-in-glove with Aerosoft's.  There are many reasons why ours is taking longer- and it has nothing to do with access (although- the plan of moving half of PMDG's staff to Bordeaux for two months did go up in smoke thanks to Covid) and everything to do with existing development agendas and the constantly moving target that is the current state of MSFS.

 

MSFS is an entirely new platform- and it takes time for all of us to move through that development process.  Some may not survive the transition simply because it does take plenty of time- and in business time always means money.  But there is not some jealously guarded garden of secrets in which some developers live and others starve outside the fence.  We are all in here helping one another learn.

 

(Wow- my first post anywhere outside the PMDG forum in 2020! LOL)

 

Robert S. Randazzo

PMDG

32 minutes ago, Doering said:

 

People seem to think all FS add-on developers are in strong competition and do not help each other. But that is far from the truth. Before Corona we used to meet at events, drink beer, now it is all digital and a lot less fun. But If I ask Robert at PMDG, or Oleksiy at Majestic, or Richard at Navigraph, or Fernando at Carenado, or or you name it, something I simply know they will reply and help. Just as they can count on us to do the same. As long as the people behind a company are respectable, don't steal from other companies, do not use spyware in installers, etc...  and are willing to buy other people a beer, they can count on the support from others.

 

Still grinding that axe. When someone does years and years later it says something about them as much as the person there pointed digs are at. 

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by Nyxx

32 minutes ago, Nyxx said:

Still grinding that axe. When someone does years and years later it says something about them as much as the person there pointed digs are at. 

Even LM and Asobo did not forget it. Maybe that really says something about the past. 

13 minutes ago, Flyer024 said:

Even LM and Asobo did not forget it. Maybe that really says something about the past. 

Key word "past", "move on" life is to short...far to short to point at one person when so many are involved and I never read anything bad about them. Like my dislike for "aerosoft" but its not all, just some. But its better not painting everyone under that umbrella all the same. It would be very wrong me thinks and reminds myself to do so. Your really think that remark was well thought out in the contest of aircraft in MSFS. Shamefully crass. From someone that should have just keep to the good point he was making.

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by Nyxx

As they say in kindergarten, you started this in an MSFS aircraft topic. 😉 

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by Flyer024