23 minutes ago, Reader said:

Human beings are fundamentally inclined to be horrible to those who they see as weak or different. History is bursting with examples of such behaviour and the present day is not short of instances either. 

 

 

Do you think its more accurate to say "a minority" of human beings are fundamentally inclined to be horrible to those who they see as weak or different? Personally, I tend to be inclined to help those who are weak or different. Everybody I associate with seems pretty much like that too. After all, we did evolve as a tribal species, and in a tribe you look after your tribal members. The examples in history you mention are usually instigated by a small minority. 

 

Quote

 It has always been the same and always will be until we humans are no more.

 

Given that there's such a concept as evolution, and human beings are continuing to evolve, I would have to disagree with that. We are changing and will continue to change. 

3 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

The obviously loaded question about genders is typical of the woke vision of things in the US (it has not reachef Europe much yet). It is not just only slightly ridiculous. The consequences can be dreadful.  It brings some unhinged parents and unethical doctors  to feel right  to administer puberty blockers to young children who are supposed to be dysphoric.  

 

Which question in particular did you think was loaded. Can you give an example? Just interested in your perceptive. To be honest, loaded or not loaded, it seemed to get me spot on. My son and daughter Both said the same. 

Edited December 26, 20205 yr by martin-w

37 minutes ago, Reader said:

Human beings are fundamentally inclined to be horrible to those who they see as weak or different. History is bursting with examples of such behaviour and the present day is not short of instances either. The "political correctness" movement is no more or less than a clumsy attempt to address the imbalance, as proposed  by those who support it and as decried by those that do not. The "pendulum" is rarely in the middle and its position is defined by the times. It has always been the same and always will be until we humans are no more.

 

Political correctness reminds me of a Chinese saying. I think it is Chinese because it was attributed to Mao when I heard it.  When a stick is bent, to straighten it up you have to force to bend it the other way. It generally does not end well. 

That whole test is just dribble. There is no way that any such survey can be taken as scientific because there is not one question about choosing you favorite simulator: 1. MSFS2020  2.Prepar3d or 3. X-Pain. You simply can not correctly evaluate a person's mental preferences without including that data. I declare it as "Officially Bogus!" 

11 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

I declare it as "Officially Bogus!" 

Thank heavens for that. We were all taken in by it, weren't we boys? 😀

I've found this whole discussion to be both enlightening and informative. But the key question that was not included in the survey still remains.....does size matter?

19 minutes ago, W2DR said:

I've found this whole discussion to be both enlightening and informative. But the key question that was not included in the survey still remains.....does size matter?

 

Yes! Don't believe them when they say no. 

31 minutes ago, W2DR said:

I've found this whole discussion to be both enlightening and informative. But the key question that was not included in the survey still remains.....does size matter?

Sir, you are beginning to obsess. Now put it away, you'll go blind. 😎

3 hours ago, martin-w said:

Do you think its more accurate to say "a minority" of human beings are fundamentally inclined to be horrible to those who they see as weak or different? Personally, I tend to be inclined to help those who are weak or different. Everybody I associate with seems pretty much like that too. After all, we did evolve as a tribal species, and in a tribe you look after your tribal members. The examples in history you mention are usually instigated by a small minority. 

As debating points:

Of course, we band together with those who we see and who see us, as compatible. But then as tribes, that is when we tend to start the horrible behaviour, usually because the other tribe has something that we want for our own, be that land or wealth, but often just because the other tribe is weaker or in some cases, merely different.

Examples in history are of all scales, often huge, as practiced for example by the various empires that have waxed and waned, or in the name of one religion or another. On a global scale, genocide is alive and well today and is rarely addressed by the majority. Even when it is, there is always an ulterior motive associated with greed, leaving the genocide that takes place where no other nation has an interest to continue unabated. There are very few "first world" countries that do not have a cupboard full of skeletons, my own being a perfect case in point. The minority are those who dedicate their lives to helping the victims of the horrible behaviour, often at the cost of their own well-being and sometimes their lives.

Edited December 26, 20205 yr by Reader

6 hours ago, Reader said:

Human beings are fundamentally inclined to be horrible to those who they see as weak or different. History is bursting with examples of such behaviour and the present day is not short of instances either. The "political correctness" movement is no more or less than a clumsy attempt to address the imbalance, as proposed  by those who support it and as decried by those that do not. The "pendulum" is rarely in the middle and its position is defined by the times. It has always been the same and always will be until we humans are no more.

 

I have a pretty dim view of humanity myself, based not on my opinion, but on history. 

For example, IMO not much has really changed regarding the relationship between the upper and lower classes.  We still have a semi-feudal system, with our new counts, barons, and dukes now being called senators, MPs, ministers, representatives, governors, etc.  We still have patricians and plebeians just as in the ancient Roman Republic, but it's not made to be so obvious as it was back then.  Sure, the commoners are better off than the poor peasants and serfs hundreds of years ago, but we're nevertheless still ruled over by a so-called elite upper class who believe themselves to be superior. 

Regarding human nature, consider some atrocities of the 20th century alone: Germany 1930s-1940s, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

Human beings are usually decent folks and are capable of great acts of kindness, but put them in a miserable or desperate situation and many of them can turn into cruel monsters very quickly.  Take a look at the Stanford Prison experiment and the Milgram experiment.

Dave

Edited December 26, 20205 yr by dave2013

2 hours ago, dave2013 said:

Human beings are usually decent folks and are capable of great acts of kindness, but put them in a miserable or desperate situation and many of them can turn into cruel monsters very quickly.

Polite society, or perhaps society in general is a very thin veneer...

15 hours ago, Reader said:

As debating points:

Of course, we band together with those who we see and who see us, as compatible. But then as tribes, that is when we tend to start the horrible behaviour.

 

 

Indeed, but my point is, regardless of the scale of the "horrible behaviour",  its usually a small evil minority, in positions of power, that instigate it. Others follow out of fear. They comply or suffer horrible consequences.

Most people are not this way inclined, its actually a small minority that have the propensity for such behaviour. Researchers say that they can identify such individuals at a very early age.

13 hours ago, dave2013 said:

 

Regarding human nature, consider some atrocities of the 20th century alone: Germany 1930s-1940s, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, etc.

 

Dave

 

As I say though... its a small minority that instigate such behaviour, often single individuals, like the ones you mention above. Large numbers of individuals then follow because if they don't the consequences for themselves and their loved ones would de dire.

We have actually evolved "somewhat" away from such unpleasant behaviour as as species, on an individual basis. In the Middle ages you would stand a much higher chance of being murdered or brutally beaten, and the authorities had no issue with the most horrendous punishments for minor crime. Evolution continues, we are getting there. Slowly but surely. 

7 hours ago, martin-w said:

 

As I say though... its a small minority that instigate such behaviour, often single individuals, like the ones you mention above. Large numbers of individuals then follow because if they don't the consequences for themselves and their loved ones would de dire.

We have actually evolved "somewhat" away from such unpleasant behaviour as as species, on an individual basis. In the Middle ages you would stand a much higher chance of being murdered or brutally beaten, and the authorities had no issue with the most horrendous punishments for minor crime. Evolution continues, we are getting there. Slowly but surely. 

I agree that it is usually power-mad megalomaniacs that start this stuff, but they can't carry out their evil pans without thousands of willing participants.  Most of those participants become willing because their well-being is at stake, so it becomes an "us or them" situation.  Human selfishness and survival instinct take over and ultimately outweigh compassion and decency.

Dave

On 12/25/2020 at 1:22 PM, W2DR said:

I don't think this test knows it's right hand from it's left. 

I was somewhat taken aback because of the way their bar-graph has "Right-Wing" on the LEFT SIDE, and vice-versa for "Left-Wing"...