14 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

Given that MSFS is attempting to depict the entire world, with data generated from real maps, it stands to reason that a significant portion will need improvement/isn't rendered properly, etc.

Sorry, but I beg to differ (and yes, I also happen to live on Vancouver Island just like the OP)..

This part of the world was just fine before the US World update, but the shorelines have been badly messed up since. This was submitted to Zendesk and accepted as a bug, but not fixed in successive updates, including the last one that has "shoreline fixes" in the update log.

It is quite disappointing to see the area where we live all messed up..

Yes, there are many parts of the world that are wonderful, but I hope you understand that this happens to be our little part of the world.. and yes it does look better in P3D.. 😉

48 minutes ago, pmb said:

The point may be in my settings: I have plainly everything maxed (Ultra) and notably the Terrain LOD slider at 200 when flying in 2D (doesn't work in 3D though)

Thanks for the test. I think it's about the settings as well. When setting the slider to 200, the amount of morphing is about the same but it happens so far away that I probably wouldn't feel too annoyed with its existence. Though it is not something my system and connection can sustain in a flight, so I have to keep it at 25-50 and then areas like Glacier Park look like an utter mess, with mountains completely changing shape around the aircraft. At 100 it's barely tolerable as well.

Sadly I know that this statement will have someone telling me again to replace my "garbage system" and that there is nothing wrong with the simulator, but I insist that before Sim Update 2 flying with lower LOD settings looked quite fine and definitely better than FSX/P3D. It's true that cranking up the LOD in those older simulators would still not reduce the morphing that much, so seeing the new simulator doing a much better job at this and then having that taken away a few months later is extremely disappointing.

Sometimes I even see mountain peaks acquire the same sawtooth pattern coastlines have from a distance, which means that the two issues could be related. I sincerely hope that when they proceed to fix the coastlines it will also take care of the morphing, because not many people are reporting this issue, and as this thread serves to prove, many are denying that it even exists. Reminds me of something else from not too long ago.

EDIT: For reference, when setting the slider to 200 I'm seeing something similar to the video that peroni posted the last time this issue was brought up. I'm assuming that this is what you were seeing as well, but when LOD is set to 100 or below it starts looking a lot more awful than that.

 

Edited February 21, 20215 yr by ChaoticBeauty

I'm almost afraid to post in this thread anymore, but for those who may be interested in this topic. Some very clever people over on the FS forum have been digging into the LOD codes within the latest updates and have discovered some very interesting things. I'm not nearly knowledgeable enough to outline their findings in an extremely informative way, but here is the jist of it. They have found that many objects are missing essential LOD's and some even only have 1 that is activated only when very close. This seems to effect POI's (points of interest) in particular and is causing popping and late activation. It is also mentioned in the same thread that this same "oversight" by Asobo, for lack of a better word, may be playing a role in the terrain LOD's as well. It might be a stretch or just wishful thinking on my part, but this may be playing some roll in the phenomenon that we are seeing after the USA update. Anyways, could be worth a read for any other "anti-morphers" out there. haha Cheers!

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/poi-very-late-rendering-draw-pop-in-solution-for-asobo-to-fix-in-this-thread/368281/39

Thanks for the headup @erick. I can't say I understand all the technical detail over there, but it's amazing how quickly the community - or let's say those educated enough - happen to nail down patch issues.

Kind regards, Michael

1 hour ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

EDIT: For reference, when setting the slider to 200 I'm seeing something similar to the video that peroni posted the last time this issue was brought up. I'm assuming that this is what you were seeing as well, but when LOD is set to 100 or below it starts looking a lot more awful than that.

I saw even a bit less than in the video, perhaps it's the back and forth provoking additional morphing. But the effect and the order of magnitude is certainly the same, and it's good to have a video showcasting it. (I can make videos but I'm all but fluent with this.)

Kind regards, Michael

3 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

Sorry, but I beg to differ (and yes, I also happen to live on Vancouver Island just like the OP)..

This part of the world was just fine before the US World update, but the shorelines have been badly messed up since. This was submitted to Zendesk and accepted as a bug, but not fixed in successive updates, including the last one that has "shoreline fixes" in the update log.

It is quite disappointing to see the area where we live all messed up..

Yes, there are many parts of the world that are wonderful, but I hope you understand that this happens to be our little part of the world.. and yes it does look better in P3D.. 😉

I overlooked erick's three tiny bumps on the distant little island when I flew over the CYCD area, but the terrible looking shorelines did get my attention. Much worse than I remember from before that update. I don't live in that area but it is one of my favorite flying locations, along with the rest of BC.

Lands End in the new UK Scenery has the coastline popping up as you fly above it. 🤥

5 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Thanks for the test. I think it's about the settings as well. When setting the slider to 200, the amount of morphing is about the same but it happens so far away that I probably wouldn't feel too annoyed with its existence. Though it is not something my system and connection can sustain in a flight, so I have to keep it at 25-50 and then areas like Glacier Park look like an utter mess, with mountains completely changing shape around the aircraft. At 100 it's barely tolerable as well.

Sadly I know that this statement will have someone telling me again to replace my "garbage system" and that there is nothing wrong with the simulator, but I insist that before Sim Update 2 flying with lower LOD settings looked quite fine and definitely better than FSX/P3D. It's true that cranking up the LOD in those older simulators would still not reduce the morphing that much, so seeing the new simulator doing a much better job at this and then having that taken away a few months later is extremely disappointing.

Sometimes I even see mountain peaks acquire the same sawtooth pattern coastlines have from a distance, which means that the two issues could be related. I sincerely hope that when they proceed to fix the coastlines it will also take care of the morphing, because not many people are reporting this issue, and as this thread serves to prove, many are denying that it even exists. Reminds me of something else from not too long ago.

EDIT: For reference, when setting the slider to 200 I'm seeing something similar to the video that peroni posted the last time this issue was brought up. I'm assuming that this is what you were seeing as well, but when LOD is set to 100 or below it starts looking a lot more awful than that.

 

Do people actually fly like this, going back and forth to look for the smallest thing to nit pick? Lol

2 hours ago, devgrp said:

Do people actually fly like this, going back and forth to look for the smallest thing to nit pick? Lol

I had to watch this vid 3 times until I saw a little bit of morphing. This is nothing.

8 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

I hope you understand that this happens to be our little part of the world.

I understand, but maybe expand your horizon - so many parts of the world to explore!

6 hours ago, erick said:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/poi-very-late-rendering-draw-pop-in-solution-for-asobo-to-fix-in-this-thread/368281/39

Thanks for posting that one. It is indeed incredible how the community can find ways to discover the inner workings of the engine, as well or even better than Asobo. A fix for the tree draw distance issue was discovered in a similar way and it's very simple, yet the Feedback Snapshot says "Not Started". Oh well.

If it's anything like the flickering clouds though, good luck getting the "anti-morphers" to stop denying the issue.

6 hours ago, pmb said:

I saw even a bit less than in the video, perhaps it's the back and forth provoking additional morphing. But the effect and the order of magnitude is certainly the same, and it's good to have a video showcasting it. (I can make videos but I'm all but fluent with this.)

I looked at the posts again and peroni said they had Terrain LOD set to 200, so it could be the camera movement exaggerating the morphing indeed. And someone else said that their morphing looked much worse than that video and closer to what I was describing, so I presume they were using a lower value.

Still, I decided to create my own comparison videos because it appears that some people are still (deliberately?) not paying full attention to my posts.

Glacier Park again, Terrain Level of Detail set to 25. No back-and-forth movement.

Similar sequence nearby, Terrain Level of Detail still set to 25.

Same sequence, Terrain Level of Detail set to 200. Similar pop-in problems, but they happen so far away from the camera/aircraft that it almost becomes a non-issue.

If anyone wants to tell me that I should just upgrade so that I can push the slider to 200 and "avoid" the issue, please spare me such comments. Terrain LOD at 25 looked way better before Sim Update 2, and not as bad as FSX/P3D at LOD_RADIUS=6.500000 when it comes to the pop-in. I really wish I had saved some similar footage from before that patch. If you are lucky enough to own a high-end system or purchased one before the pandemic and mining boom, good for you, spend your time flying in the simulator and let me complain. It does not affect your enjoyment in any way.

Thanks @ChaoticBeauty, that 200 video perfectly matches my experience. I can live with that for now, even more as I usually fly a few ft higher, but the Nanaimo issue is directly on the flight path after take off and hardly to avoid.

The 25 videos look inacceptable to me, it's indeed close to what I recall from Prepar3d and was in hope we would get rid of - finally.

I doubt Asobo will look here, even more given the headline of the topic. The best place to make them aware is still the official forum, notably the next Q&A should be a good opportunity. I'll watch for a corresponding topic to vote up or create one.

Kind regards, Michael

26 minutes ago, pmb said:

I doubt Asobo will look here, even more given the headline of the topic. The best place to make them aware is still the official forum, notably the next Q&A should be a good opportunity. I'll watch for a corresponding topic to vote up or create one.

Unfortunately considering the current bug thread about the morphing has only 144 votes, it is unlikely that something like this will be asked in the Q&A. Jörg mentioned in an older one (November maybe) that they were looking to fine-tune the mesh rendering algorithm, which will hopefully include LOD issues. I'm not sure what else to do. I guess I'll file another Zendesk report to include the coastlines which are also getting affected since the UK World Update (posted two videos about this in the thread at the official forums), but I'm not sure if those hold any weight unless a bug is mass-reported. I'm seeing bug reports I filed 5 months ago, and those issues continue to exist. Most of them minor visual/UI glitches, which I thought would be relatively simple to correct.

35 minutes ago, pmb said:

it's indeed close to what I recall from Prepar3d and was in hope we would get rid of - finally.

It is especially disappointing that to a large extent those morphing issues were eliminated at launch (and I'm presuming Alpha/Beta), and four months later they are back and in an even worse form for those of us playing at lower graphics settings. I'm not even sure whether to call that a legacy issue because the rendering engine is completely new, a modified ForzaTech engine. Either way, we are going backwards in that respect and I hope it won't be too long until we start seeing some progress, and that we won't have to brute force the LOD with newer hardware in the longer future.

4 hours ago, crimplene said:

I had to watch this vid 3 times until I saw a little bit of morphing. This is nothing.

Exactly. I wonder if these same guys who are saying these little issues are making the sim unusable, are still flying XP or p3d with their problems or are they waiting for them to be fixed too? 

46 minutes ago, devgrp said:

Exactly. I wonder if these same guys who are saying these little issues are making the sim unusable, are still flying XP or p3d with their problems or are they waiting for them to be fixed too? 

In the LOD 25 video the morphing is terrible, though. But even when I had an old i5 and a gtx 1060 gpu i did use LOD 100+ with no problems. I compromised with rendering resolution which is not good for sharpness but at least gives no morphing.

I really would recommend to set LOD higher and other settings lower.