MSFS 2020 is really getting there!

[Dominique_K 10,149]

2 hours ago, Janov said:

What a great idea! 😄  

Jan you are the last in the merry band that I still read 😄 . I like a little spice in my forum.  And  chiefly because you brought here, in the past, some interesting insights on aviation vis-à-vis MFS.  Now, if you turn a propagandist for XP in a MFS forum and sorta hijack threads with the complicity of some repetitive bores of the "Hare Asobo" kind  who predict ad nauseam the demise of XP and P3D, do not look surprised if there are strong reactions against you or rather against you and what you say.  

 

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dominique_K

[The Moose 1,177]

4 hours ago, Janov said:

.like somehow deep inside you are not so absolutely certain that your simulator of choice is as perfect as you would like to believe.

Nowhere have i seen anyone, even the most ardent supporters of MSFS, claim it's in any way perfect.

As someone who came from many years of enjoyment with x-plane 11 i am certain i made the right choice though.  I haven't even bothered reinstalling x-plane on my new machine.

 You Sir are in no position to start talking about "grown up manner" and "resorting to childish replies"   when you start with the utterly childish "go fly over your house" nonsense.  

You know what anther word for "pushing your buttons" is?   Trolling is the word your looking for..

[Ricardo41 5,949]

2 hours ago, Janov said:

Look, I know I said things a few months ago that were not totally objective and I am willing to move beyond that and discuss things on a more level-headed basis...without the personal attacks and name calling.

And this:

4 hours ago, Janov said:

The funny thing is - since you guys are talking about me here - that it seems to bother you so much...like somehow deep inside you are not so absolutely certain that your simulator of choice is as perfect as you would like to believe. Further corraborating my assessment is the fact that several users feel the need to post self-reassuring threads like this one or this one https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/601341-one-sim-to-rule-them-all/ with astonishing regular frequency 😆.

Yeah, you sure are off to a good start "moving beyond personal attacks".

🙄

[Janov 2,383]

1 minute ago, The Moose said:

when you start with the utterly childish "go fly over your house" nonsense.

May I invite you to read my post carefully again, Sir? I have stated that I will only resort to childish replies if being attacked in a childish manner - in other words, I am retorting, not instigating.

4 minutes ago, The Moose said:

Nowhere have i seen anyone, even the most ardent supporters of MSFS, claim it's in any way perfect.

If you read the part that you quoted, I specifically said "as perfect as you would like to believe". While english is not my first language, and the word "perfect" may have been a poor choice because there is no increment to "perfect", I still think that my choice of words indicated that I suggested that MSFS is "not as good" ("not as perfect") as some like to believe.

In other words - if you read someones post with a certain (hostile) mindset, it is easy to read a meaning into it that was not intended.

Cheers, Jan

 

[Janov 2,383]

7 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

Yeah, you sure are off to a good start "moving beyond personal attacks".

Maybe check the timestamps on your quotes so can get the chronological order right? You can´t be judged if something is a good start against something that you did before resorting to have a good start, right?

[Chock 17,769]

The amusing thing about all this, is that the topic was: MSFS is really getting there, not that it has got there, i.e. it's looking nice but still got some way to go. Yet we still get the usual suspects erroneously identifying the topic as MSFS is bloody brilliant in every way possible and your favourite simulator sucks and blows at the same time then using that false identification as the catalyst to dredge up their same old my sim is better than yours yawn-fest. Again.

Does anyone seriously imagine if there was a flight sim which was significantly better in every respect, that any level-headed flight sim enthusiast would not want to try it and would not take the opportunity to do so? Or that there is one of the big name flight sims which is somehow a forbidden secret of which vast swathes of flight sim enthusiasts are completely unaware?

Nope, the overwhelming majority of people here have tried all of the sims, in numerous iterations over the years, and yes their personal preference will to some extent colour the decision they make on which ones they like best, but does anyone seriously believe that people into flight sims, having tried them all, would forgo some excellent characteristics of a particular sim just because they'd already decided not to like that sim no matter what, and more importantly, if anyone did take that silly stance, would you even bother taking anything they said seriously or waste time being offended by them?

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Chock

[Janov 2,383]

38 minutes ago, Chock said:

Does anyone seriously imagine if there was a flight sim which was significantly better in every respect, that any level-headed flight sim enthusiast would not want to try it

I will certainly try a simulator that is signifcantly better in every respect! 😉

In general I support the stance to try every flightsimulator available, and have lived by that rule until FSX was cancelled. Never got P3D, and neither MSFS. I guess as I get older, I become less curious (and more stubborn!) and time seems to whizz by faster, becoming more valuable in the process.

I still think that one can form an educated opinion about something without having actually tried it. While I am fond of computergames in general, I do pick and choose which ones I actually purchase and try - even though following your logic I make ill informed decisions because I decide against them without having experienced them.

I don´t think I need to try MSFS to see its advantages, I see them very clearly and there are millions of youtube videos and screenshots that leave no doubt. There is, however, also enough credible testimony about its shortcomings that convince me that certain features important to me are not achieved (yet), so there really is no need for me to try it (yet).

In general I will try (especially going forward!) to not spoil anyone´s enjoyment of MSFS - unless this enjoyment involves ridicule, false statement or slander of X-Plane.

I will also engage in conversations (in this forum and elsewhere) where I feel I can contribute with real aviation knowlege, but that is not in any way related to a specific simulator software.

Cheers, Jan

 

Edited June 4, 2021 by Janov

[jarmstro 2,403]

6 minutes ago, Janov said:

I don´t think I need to try MSFS to see its advantages, I see them very clearly and there are millions of youtube videos and screenshots that leave no doubt. There is, however, also enough credible testimony about its shortcomings that convince me that certain features important to me are not achieved (yet), so there really is no need for me to try it (yet).

 

You can form an opinion but it can never be an educated opinion unless you try it. Testimony in this case is no more than hearsay. I cannot imagine what reason there can possibly be not to try it other that downright prejudice as to do so costs just £1?

[tweekz 2,165]

1 hour ago, Dominique_K said:

Jan you are the last in the merry band that I still read 😄 . I like a little spice in my forum.  And  chiefly because you brought here, in the past, some interesting insights on aviation vis-à-vis MFS.  Now, if you turn a propagandist for XP in a MFS forum and sorta hijack threads with the complicity of some repetitive bores of the "Hare Asobo" kind  who predict ad nauseam the demise of XP and P3D, do not look surprised if there are strong reactions against you or rather against you and what you say. 

I feel pretty much the same way. But there are plenty of other airline pilots that actually use MSFS and contribute to our community. So, not a big miss.

The only unfortunate thing is that such people actually somewhat spoil my excitement for XP. It shouldn't, but talking as a human with flaws, if they have people featured on their site that go out and troll other communities, it affects my perception of the full product.

Edited June 4, 2021 by tweekz

[Dominique_K 10,149]

34 minutes ago, tweekz said:

I feel pretty much the same way. But there are plenty of other airline pilots that actually use MSFS and contribute to our community. So, not a big miss.

The only unfortunate thing is that such people actually somewhat spoil my excitement for XP. It shouldn't, but talking as a human with flaws, if they have such people featured on their site, it affects my perception of the full product.

Again my exact thought. I tried XP a couple of times, was not overly impressed but what really drove me off was the sectarian mentality of the XP forums. And what really p*sses me off grandly is to see that coming to MFS.  

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dominique_K

[Janov 2,383]

1 minute ago, Dominique_K said:

And what really p*sses off grandly is to see that coming to MFS.

Is that the sectarian XP-people coming to MSFS, or MSFS developing it´s own sectarian cult? 😉

[Dominique_K 10,149]

5 minutes ago, Janov said:

Is that the sectarian XP-people coming to MSFS, or MSFS developing it´s own sectarian cult? 😉

An excellent question. You mean like a pandemic   ?

I do note that a lot of guys in the Praise Asobo crowd know quite well the intricacies of XP.

Just sayin' ...

My paranoia and all that. 🤣

Edited June 4, 2021 by Dominique_K

[Bobsk8 12,735]

2 minutes ago, Dominique_K said:

Again my exact thought. I tried XP a couple of times, was not overly impressed but what really drove me off was the sectarian mentality of the XP forums. And what really p*sses off grandly is to see that coming to MFS.  

I think with MSFS, you have a sim that is leaps and bounds better than anything so far in simming. It is not perfect, but neither is the other two major sims, which require a fortune in upgrades, add ons, and time spent trying to make them look decent. MSFS works out of the box, with pretty much everything available, seasons, scenery, weather, ATC ( such as it is, ), and even things like the Fly by Wire A 320, and PMDG soon to be released, bringing additional aircraft in. That is what is attracting people like me that have been simming for decades. Is it perfect, none of today's sims are perfect.  But it is closer to ideal, than anything I have seen so far. 

[The Moose 1,177]

6 minutes ago, Janov said:

Is that the sectarian XP-people coming to MSFS, or MSFS developing it´s own sectarian cult? 😉

Both i imagine 😉

[Dominique_K 10,149]

1 minute ago, Bobsk8 said:

I think with MSFS, you have a sim that is leaps and bounds better than anything so far in simming. It is not perfect, but neither is the other two major sims, which require a fortune in upgrades, add ons, and time spent trying to make them look decent. MSFS works out of the box, with pretty much everything available, seasons, scenery, weather, ATC ( such as it is, ), and even things like the Fly by Wire A 320, and PMDG soon to be released, bringing additional aircraft in. That is what is attracting people like me that have been simming for decades. Is it perfect, none of today's sims are perfect.  But it is closer to ideal, than anything I have seen so far. 

This is not the point. I fly with MFS and like it. After flying the franchise from 1 to FSX (except 95 , 98 and 2000) , P3D2 and 3, Fly! and Fly2,  FU 2 and 3 and that is just for civil aviation. I think I know what a good sim is and  MFS is a good sim as far as I am concerned (YMMV) but  the paeans of praise we read these days along with the constant predictions of P3D and XP demise tend to be a bit over the top.  Actually no. They are totally over the top.